Sick of sliding around
- Thread starter sawood12
- Start date
Neil Haughey
New member
Not so sure about the Toyo T1-R, TTM reported a bad experience with them and now I have been getting the same experience with them on the back of my 968. A step backwards from the excellent T1-S which itself is an old tyre now. R888 maybe but I can't see me fitting any of the other Toyo current offerings.
Peter Empson
PCGB Member
I'm a bit puzzled about these experiences with T1-R's, I've had something like 4 or 5 sets and they've all been excellent in every respect (I briefly had Contisports and they were horrible). I don't have noticeable side wall flex or any vagueness and I do have a very stiff setup so I'd have thought it would show up very clearly (in fact I've decided I really must stiffen the gearbox mounts as play there is very noticeable). Could it be limited to just the 16" ones that are causing trouble, and those of us that have had good results all have 17's?
The serbian made front tyres on the 944S haven't had me off the road yet, in fact they seem quite good for pottering about on these slippy roads, so what do I know [
]
TTM
Well-known member
This is what I am beginning to think.
As far as I can gather, "Steve 944t" is one of the few here, if not the only one, who has used satisfyingly the T1R in the 225/50 245/45 16" sizes, but then he has had a set fitted all around, while Neil and I have used them only at the back.
People using 17" wheels don't seem to be affected.
mik_ok
New member
I used Toyo T1-R in 205/55/16F + 225/50/16R on the S2 and was very happy with them.
Slimboyfat used 225/50/16F + 245/45/16R on his Turbot and I know he was happy with them too.
They grip well (surprisingly well in cold conditions for a "summer" tyre). and give progressive breakaway. There is no denying that they aren't the stiffest-sidewalled tyre on the market, so turn-in is a little vaguer than on some other performance tyres. I was more than happy to live with this as my previous front tyres (Yoko AVS) tramlined badly - sometimes dangerously - and the T1R eliminated this trait completely.
Sidewall stiffness may be the cause of the mixed feedback, and I've also seen some comments about production batch variations (although that was over a year ago). I've only every bought T1-R in full sets of 4 so the car never felt unbalanced.
Slimboyfat used 225/50/16F + 245/45/16R on his Turbot and I know he was happy with them too.
They grip well (surprisingly well in cold conditions for a "summer" tyre). and give progressive breakaway. There is no denying that they aren't the stiffest-sidewalled tyre on the market, so turn-in is a little vaguer than on some other performance tyres. I was more than happy to live with this as my previous front tyres (Yoko AVS) tramlined badly - sometimes dangerously - and the T1R eliminated this trait completely.
Sidewall stiffness may be the cause of the mixed feedback, and I've also seen some comments about production batch variations (although that was over a year ago). I've only every bought T1-R in full sets of 4 so the car never felt unbalanced.
Super_Marv
New member
Aren't T1-R's as old as the sun now? I've heard the design is so old, they pre-date the invention of the wheel []
Admittedly, compound has a massive role to play and Toyo have probably changed the compound several times during its life.
I've always found Eagle F1s fine in the cold, and they're okay in the snow when they've got a decent compliment of tread too.
] Admittedly, compound has a massive role to play and Toyo have probably changed the compound several times during its life.
I've always found Eagle F1s fine in the cold, and they're okay in the snow when they've got a decent compliment of tread too.
edh
New member
I'm happy with T1-R's on std 16's - the car came with them, used by the previous owner & recommended by him.
- he won the BARC sprint champs (2005 I think) in my car, so I'm happy to take his word one this subject.
On my second set now - I get good grip, rarely have traction issues unless I drive stupidly. They have also seen a few trackdays, mainly wet ones. Dry trackdays I try & use my P Zero C's.
I haven't driven my car with any other tyres, but see no reason to change.
- he won the BARC sprint champs (2005 I think) in my car, so I'm happy to take his word one this subject.
On my second set now - I get good grip, rarely have traction issues unless I drive stupidly. They have also seen a few trackdays, mainly wet ones. Dry trackdays I try & use my P Zero C's.
I haven't driven my car with any other tyres, but see no reason to change.
Super_Marv
New member
The GS-D3 F1s are pretty good in the dry - the sidewalls do flex a bit and the tread blocks can shuffle if really pressing on. It's in the wet where they really come into their own and seeing as there seemingly isn't a day go by where the roads aren't wet, performance in the rain/wet roads is an important consideration to me.
If you can get the newer F1 Asymmetric tyre in your size, they're a far superior tyre in the dry, over the old GS-D3 and are still brilliant in the wet.
Think I'll be trying the Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta's next, which seem to be very highly rated. They've just started making them in the right size for my rears on my 944 S3 (255/40/R17) too.
If you can get the newer F1 Asymmetric tyre in your size, they're a far superior tyre in the dry, over the old GS-D3 and are still brilliant in the wet.
Think I'll be trying the Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta's next, which seem to be very highly rated. They've just started making them in the right size for my rears on my 944 S3 (255/40/R17) too.
appletonn
New member
I've got them in 18" (225 & 265 sizes) and despite a softish sidewall (which helps with their good wet grip) they are also pretty good in the dry - even on track, although I could feel the rears flexing slightly at Donington...!
I think they're great for the price too - got them from Camskill & great service.
I want to try the F1 Asymetrics next though...
berg944
New member
I have those all round on a hard setup. I am very pleased with them.
My car is light and used to spin the rears in 5th at 70mph on just a damp road.
If you are spinning these tyres in 4th and your car is less than 400 bhp your might want to......
Check your pressures
Clean the oil off them
Drive on tarmac
Check you have not swapped the rear wheels around[
]Mike[:'(]
TTM
Well-known member
Sound advice Mike, it never crossed my mind []
Grip was actually very good, only stability was an issue.
Imagine driving in a straight line with the steering rack unbolted from the front cross member and you will get an idea of what I experienced [&:]
Seriously, so far we could reasonably say they only work if fitted all round.
]Grip was actually very good, only stability was an issue.
Imagine driving in a straight line with the steering rack unbolted from the front cross member and you will get an idea of what I experienced [&:]
Seriously, so far we could reasonably say they only work if fitted all round.
berg944
New member
I fitted the rears only first, I could not believe how this effected the steering!!!
In my case it improved. I had bad tram-lining that virtually disappeared when I changed the rear tyres.
Is it possible that they can alter the steering geometry?
That said, it would depend on the settings in the first place and could have put yours into the "very dodgy"settings area.
Just a theory, what do you think!
Mike[:'(]
TTM
Well-known member
There has always been pretty "aggressive" geometry settings on my turbo and anyway one sunday afternoon I visited a friend who lent me his set of rear wheels (also 9" D90) fitted with older F1S so that we could make a properly scientific back-to-back comparison and the difference was night & day - F1S good, T1R dangerous.
On my set of ClubSport I have had T1S all round and they have been just as good as the F1S which I previously had all round on the D90.
Mike, what tyres were you previously running before fitting the T1R ? Which were you running at the front when you fitted the T1R at the rear ?
I really want to believe those T1R actually work, and it would be great if we could get down to a definitive conclusion such as if they work only when fitted all round (or else), as suggested all above by others!
Could it be a thing of mixing non N-rated tyres (such as the T1R) with N-rated tyres (such as the old F1S) ? [8|]
On my set of ClubSport I have had T1S all round and they have been just as good as the F1S which I previously had all round on the D90.
Mike, what tyres were you previously running before fitting the T1R ? Which were you running at the front when you fitted the T1R at the rear ?
I really want to believe those T1R actually work, and it would be great if we could get down to a definitive conclusion such as if they work only when fitted all round (or else), as suggested all above by others!
Could it be a thing of mixing non N-rated tyres (such as the T1R) with N-rated tyres (such as the old F1S) ? [8|]
Neil Haughey
New member
The experience on my 968 is that they definitely have loads of grip hence traction is really good in the recent cold weather. With the same tyres all round I guess I wouldn't notice the squirmy feeling back end so much. The problem is I have 38 psi in the rears now and they feel almost OK but any more and I will be loosing rear grip and wearing the middle of the tyre down.
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