Service and MOT sweepstake!

[zcacogp]

Alasdair,

That's a cracking example of why you don't need to lust after Italian exotica to have a serious performance car.

By all means fall in love with something with a stumbling donkey on it's nose. But they don't really float my boat. I tend to value things in cars that such exotica can't deliver ... I'd have a really really good Audi RS2 over anything ever produced by Ferrari, for instance. And a nice old W124 Merc estate over pretty much every Lamborghini ever made.


Oli (the certifiable).

 

[TTM]

ORIGINAL: zcacogp
I'd have a really really good Audi RS2 over anything ever produced by Ferrari, for instance.

I thought you were relevant until you added :

And a nice old W124 Merc estate over pretty much every Lamborghini ever made.

Sorry but no.
My old mum runs a clean-ish W124 230CE and... what a shed. As a German car from the 80s it is ok to work on, but there is absolutely no pleasure whatsoever to be extracted from driving these. In fact I would consider insulting to consider that spending time at the wheel of these could be any such thing as "driving" []

 

[zcacogp]

In fairness I have never driven one but I have always, always loved them - for the build quality if nothing else!

Bear in mind that some people think 944's are crap, with VW van engines in them ...


Oli.

 

[vitesse]

I detect a thread running through these posts--people ,particularly men are all too busy,no good at DIY(specially the younger ones ),& rather too well off to bother doing things & enjoying doing things for themselves anymore-they are also persuaded that they couldn't do things as well as the "professionals" by the professionals & hence manufacturers & repairers have been able to ramp up prices to "shock" levels where even the rich complain.

Whereas ,I've just been this lunchtime to pick a rear Turbo anti-roll bar for my e-bay 924s (£950-2 yrs ago)--cost £20 inc eccentric attachment studs,drop links ,saddle clips -I shall pick the bolts & nuts from my factory stock,then fit it having cleaned up the underside area ,sprayed the area with zinc rich paint then more underseal.I fitted the front bar ,having modified the 944 turbo bar ends to suit 924S fixings some months ago,and am now expecting much better handling next time out on track.

On the way,I might get my local garage,who look after my company vehicles to "crack" the nuts & bolts on the current clamp bolt set & drop the rear suspension arms a little more, using their MOT lift after work,& the proper spanner I bought recently off the forum-2 of the mechanics are quite enthusiastic--after all it will save me some pain instead of using my garage ,ramps,jacks,axle stands etc & that is how I normally arrange things to avoid problems with cars stuck on stands in the garage--to have used an indie to sort out the 924S would have been unaffordable in my sort of economical appraisal,even though I'm not poor by any means.Also ,it's a hobby.

 

[VanhireBoys]

Well Paul.. Whats done is done and theres no point in attempting to do all that work yourself if you re not confident in your ability ! Thats work is now complete and the car will be all the better for it.... I try and do a big job every year and that way you keep ahead of the posse...

Put another way - Ignore all the best service practices and the car will be a right heap of dung...You wont be able to go anywhere without having the AA on speed dial []

I am lucky has Dave who lets me do my own work ... Ive learned so much from this forum as well and its you boys that have gave me the confidence to have a go .. Dave is there in a supervisory/advisory basis ...I showed Dave this thread and asked him for a price for the parts and labour if it were my 944 and an outside customer ...

Dave said about €2200 would be his price and he isnt a 944 expert (although he is getting there due to me [])

A 944 is like any classic car of that era.. and not as expensive as most to run... If you had a Lancia Delta Integrale, Ford Escort Cossie or a UR Audi Quattro you would be into telephone numbers ....

If you want a cheap classic then a Morris Minor or Austin A35 is your man if you keep ahead of the rust that is []

 

[Ewan]

There's no doubting the outright speed of an Ultima. But there's also no doubting its a pug-ugly tub of a car, and not really comparable to a 60K Ferrari. For £60K you can buy, for example, a 612 with a beautiful leather interior that will fit the whole family plus luggage and take you across Europe in style, at up to 200mph. Which an Ultima will not. Out and out track cars and pure speed don't do it for me I'm afraid. That said, I'm still glad that the Ultima exists. It's good to have the choice.

 

[TTM]

I wish I were still as sensitive to the charms of exotic Italians as when I was as a little boy... After years of playing with keys and spanners and considering cars from their technical point of view I must confess that the way they look has now become a somewhat secondary consideration, which is sad in a way [8|]

 

[DavidL]

Now, and I'll try to chose my words very carefully, is this not just a discussion about time and money?

If we all had just selected the correct 6 numbers on a roll over weekend and we'd invested it wisely would we not choose whatever our hearts desired and the costs of running would be relative to our ability to pay for a good job? It may cost a Clio or two but that would be as relevant as whether you put two Mars bars or one in the shopping trolley if you had just won 100 million or so. Me I'd be off to Mr Pagani as soon as Easyjet could get me there.

(ok this must assume all garages are going to do a good job but equally would you, as garage owner, care to bodge a job on Richard Branson's F40 and risk the wrath of his sizeable legal team reducing your business to ashes in a very short period of time - bigger cars/bigger bills, bigger risk if it goes wrong?)

Oli (sorry I don't mean to single you out but the example helps) would you really not buy something just because of the potential bills if the costs of these were effectively irrelevant?

Now in the real world we all have differing budgets and ways to spend our time. I worked with a chap many years ago who preferred to do an extra shift and pay the mechanic than DIY. For me it is far more cost effective to test eyes and sell glasses than to work on the car. I enjoy a bit of tinkering and I have the space, alternative transport and a few tools but the car goes to Promax next week all the same. I do think the odd few jobs I have done have probably paid for the tools I buy to the same cost as if I had had a garage do it.

The DIY option means you know its done to your requirements and you can enjoy it and learn but you do have to have the time and the ability. It is a more economical way of doing things and it may be a necessity to keep cars like ours which is fine (our society now doesn't know how to "do" things any more) but would you choose the Ultima over the Ferrari (again just the example we have been using) if the choice was purely that and not a financial consideration?

 

[TTM]

I suppose some will always choose the Ultima over the Ferrari if going against the grain ranks high among their principles - that said, do you think Easyjet will make us a discount if we take two seats instead of just one? []

 

[DavidL]

I don't think we'll care do you? Coupe or roadster for you Sir?
And you'd probably have both and the Ultima and the Ferrari!

 

[Ewan]

Surely we'd all rather arrive at Pagani in our 944's than arrive by EasyJet! Many years ago I drove my S2 engined 944S to Italy and loved the journey. But that said, if three of us are going, I still say let's take the 612.

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: DavidL

Now, and I'll try to chose my words very carefully, is this not just a discussion about time and money?

If we all had just selected the correct 6 numbers on a roll over weekend and we'd invested it wisely would we not choose whatever our hearts desired and the costs of running would be relative to our ability to pay for a good job? It may cost a Clio or two but that would be as relevant as whether you put two Mars bars or one in the shopping trolley if you had just won 100 million or so. Me I'd be off to Mr Pagani as soon as Easyjet could get me there.

(ok this must assume all garages are going to do a good job but equally would you, as garage owner, care to bodge a job on Richard Branson's F40 and risk the wrath of his sizeable legal team reducing your business to ashes in a very short period of time - bigger cars/bigger bills, bigger risk if it goes wrong?)

Oli (sorry I don't mean to single you out but the example helps) would you really not buy something just because of the potential bills if the costs of these were effectively irrelevant?

Now in the real world we all have differing budgets and ways to spend our time. I worked with a chap many years ago who preferred to do an extra shift and pay the mechanic than DIY. For me it is far more cost effective to test eyes and sell glasses than to work on the car. I enjoy a bit of tinkering and I have the space, alternative transport and a few tools but the car goes to Promax next week all the same. I do think the odd few jobs I have done have probably paid for the tools I buy to the same cost as if I had had a garage do it.

The DIY option means you know its done to your requirements and you can enjoy it and learn but you do have to have the time and the ability. It is a more economical way of doing things and it may be a necessity to keep cars like ours which is fine (our society now doesn't know how to "do" things any more) but would you choose the Ultima over the Ferrari (again just the example we have been using) if the choice was purely that and not a financial consideration?

Excellent post, and spot on. Yes, it's time and money, and yes, some people balance the two differently. However it's also about where you get your kicks, and whether you enjoy DIY-ing cars. I really like doing the work myself, and therefore will choose to do this - despite being in a very lucky position where I could afford to pay if I wanted to.

If I won the lottery would I buy something exotic and Italian? Or change my outlook because I could afford big bills? No, I genuinely wouldn't. I'd find myself a better workshop than the one I currently have (i.e. the road outside my house!) and I'd invest in some new tools. And then think long and hard about what engine I'd put in my Caterham. But no, that's about all. Sorry. As I've said before, I'm a fundamentally boring person ...


Oli.

 

[simdel1]

ORIGINAL: zcacogp

If I won the lottery would I buy something exotic and Italian? Or change my outlook because I could afford big bills? No, I genuinely wouldn't. I'd find myself a better workshop than the one I currently have (i.e. the road outside my house!) and I'd invest in some new tools. And then think long and hard about what engine I'd put in my Caterham. But no, that's about all. Sorry. As I've said before, I'm a fundamentally boring person ...


Oli.

I've had dreams about my 6-number workshop. It has a two-post lift, a tig welder, spray booth and a mezzanine floor with a beer fridge and an f1 tyre coffee table surrounded by leather chairs. I would give up my job and supplement my income by dabbling with old cars. I'm getting misty eyed"¦

In terms of the Italian exotic, as nice as it would be to have something like a 458, knowing me I could imagine that I would end up just getting more cars rather than a couple of expensive ones. There would be an Austin 7, a Lotus Elan, Jaguar Mk2, Lotus Esprit, 911 (964 turbo probably!) and for practical uses an MG ZT-T 260. If I was to get an Italian exotic it would probably be a 308. The whole lot would cost the same as a new Ferrari but would be infinitely more interesting. It would also give me some old stuff to work on in the workshop!

As you can probably tell, I actually quite enjoy working on my cars. To me, picking up the spanners is an intrinsic part of motoring. I might not be the best DIY mechanic at the moment, but I'm working to improve my skills because it's something I actually enjoy. However, I can fully appreciate the appeal of paying someone to do something rather than lying on your back under the car on a cold January morning getting covered in brake fluid"¦

 

[zcacogp]

Simon,

I don't have a brother, but if I ever need one I'm going to adopt you as one. You share my outlook on these matters precisely!

Hope that's OK.


Oli.

P.S. We've had fantasy garage discussions on here before, and mine are fairly well-known. I'd certainly have that Mk2 Jag, and possibly a 993 turbo instead of the 964. I'd also have a BMW328, a UR Quatt and something from Bristol. Oh, and a DS Decapotable. And I would have to live somewhere other than in the UK in order to exercise them all fully ...

 

[simdel1]

No probs Oli. My only condition is that if your 6 numbers come up, you let me play in your garage []

Thanks for reminding me about the DS. I would definitely need one of them...I'd be happy with a saloon though.

 

[Diver944]

Only the 944 car enthusiast would start imagining what tools he'd have in the workshop if his numbers came up

Much as I love fiddling around with the bits of my car that I can understand, if my numbers came up then my workshop would have Freisinger written above the door and I'd just give them portions of my cash to maintain my fleet of classic Stuttgart metal for me.

This is still for sale, where do I sign........

 

[PSH]

ORIGINAL: Diver944

Only the 944 car enthusiast would start imagining what tools he'd have in the workshop if his numbers came up

Much as I love fiddling around with the bits of my car that I can understand, if my numbers came up then my workshop would have Freisinger written above the door and I'd just give them portions of my cash to maintain my fleet of classic Stuttgart metal for me.

This is still for sale, where do I sign........

Oh I do like the look of that Paul, my name is along side yours..

Pete