S2: The right price

[Ru2S7]

Hi all

I'm new to the PCGB forum and hoping to purchase my first Porsche with an approx £5k budget. I drove a L plate 968 Sport in 2010 and loved it, unfortunately I couldn't really afford it at the time and didn't buy it. Wish I had now, it was in great condition and only £6k! The one that got away.

Now all 968's I've seen recently are around £10k which is too strong for me. Having done some online research I read that the 944 S2 is 8/9 tenths of a 968 for half the money. I've read that it's best to buy a well maintained car rather than a cheap one to restore - but what condition S2 can I expect for my budget?

 

[edh]

Given enough time, and without being too fixed on colour/trim, you should find a good one for 5k. Don't stress too much about mileage, worry more about cams/chain etc.. and rust and find one that has plenty of care spent on it by an enthusiast.

 

[Veerzigzag]

cams/chain etc.. and rust

That is IMHO a spot-on list of the major concerns. I got my '89 2.7 for £2.4k in excellent order, so you should be looking for something VERY special at your budget.

 

[Ru2S7]

Thanks chaps

On Autotrader/PH there are a few cars that state they're cherished/no expense spared but they're £6k+, then there are also cars which simply state good condition/FSH for just £4k. Now I appreciate that you can't make an accurate assessment without a viewing/drive but before I drive hundreds of miles across the country I wondered whether £6k is too much or £4k is too cheap/should be suspicious?

Some examples below...

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201305166789023/sort/default/usedcars/body-type/coupe/engine-size-cars/3l_to_3-9l/model/944/make/porsche/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/page/1/radius/1500/postcode/mk465er?logcode=p

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201305186825047/sort/default/usedcars/engine-size-cars/3l_to_3-9l/body-type/coupe/model/944/make/porsche/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/page/1/radius/1501/postcode/mk465er?logcode=p

How much does it cost to do a full belts/peace of mind service?

 

[BlackMagic]

You might consider approaching a couple of well respected independents and asking if they know any good cars that are up for sale. They often make introductions for the goodwill of both sides so it shouldn't affect the price too much.

Down south try JMG or GT One

William

 

[Eldavo]

Where are you based?

I may know a tidy 968 for sale on budget.

 

[chrismanchr]

Ive just bought an s2 for 3.5k it has low owners ,low mileage and great very extensive history but needs a whole lot of work doing to it ,watch out for rust and check down the grill that pops out in the door aperature ,also bottom of the front wing and rear of the rear wheel arch ,gearboxs get noisey ,cooling system issues ,and some expensive items like the clutch rubber flywheel etc

even though mines a bit rough I'm glad I bought it ,but its gonna cost me about 2-3 grand to turn into a really good car
I looked at alot of s2's and they were all in this sort of state just up for different prices ,and some were over 7 grand

 

[colin944]

10 years ago the advice was as follows:

Buy one in a colour you like with sport seats and nice wheels. S2's don't rust or have any mechanical issues to be aware of at all.



Now it's watch out for rust in the sills,bottom of wings,rear quarters,and floor.
Make sure its had belts and a cam chain recently
Apart from that check all the usual stuff you do when buying a second hand car.

Good luck and I'm sure when you find your car you will love it.Just don't walk past a good 2.5 2.7 or turbo cause you want an S2. They are all great cars.

 

[edh]

ORIGINAL: Ru2S7

Thanks chaps

On Autotrader/PH there are a few cars that state they're cherished/no expense spared but they're £6k+, then there are also cars which simply state good condition/FSH for just £4k. Now I appreciate that you can't make an accurate assessment without a viewing/drive but before I drive hundreds of miles across the country I wondered whether £6k is too much or £4k is too cheap/should be suspicious?

Some examples below...

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201305166789023/sort/default/usedcars/body-type/coupe/engine-size-cars/3l_to_3-9l/model/944/make/porsche/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/page/1/radius/1500/postcode/mk465er?logcode=p

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201305186825047/sort/default/usedcars/engine-size-cars/3l_to_3-9l/body-type/coupe/model/944/make/porsche/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/page/1/radius/1501/postcode/mk465er?logcode=p

How much does it cost to do a full belts/peace of mind service?

I think the pricing is all over the place - view each car on its merits...

The 4k car looks nice enough - but they all shine up well in pictures. It could be rusty. The 6k car might take an offer... (looks a bit clumsy on cup 1's)

A peace of mind service....well

Belts, oil seals (if required), water pump (if required), cam chain & tensioner (if required) will be anywhere from £400 to £1000+. If you can get the cams/chain inspected (cam cover off) before purchase then that's ideal.

Recent clutch is good - a very heavy one / juddery one could be on its way out (£ big bill..)

 

[Ru2S7]

Hi

I'm based in Milton Keynes. Do you have more details?

ORIGINAL: Eldavo

Where are you based?

I may know a tidy 968 for sale on budget.

 

[Hairyarse]

I've been kind enough to PM you a link to mine for sale []

Let me know if you'd be interested in any further information.

Regards
Andy

 

[pauljmcnulty]

My thoughts?

Having bought a very nice S2 four years ago I'd advise caution if you don't have the money for a £10K car; that is what an S2 is in all honesty unless you do all the work yourself. You're in MK, so local to the specialists I'd recommend, and I know full well what it costs for any of the more major work.

You need to allow about £1K at a specialist in the South East for any of the big expenses you might well find on an S2. You might get lucky and only need one of these per year, or get two or three at once. Even then, a caliper and brake line overhaul at an indie can easily go from £1K to £2K, as I know only too well! [&o]

I'd recommend you look for a car that's had a recent clutch, belt service including all ancillaries, brake overhaul, suspension overhaul, new fuel lines, suspension renewed, engine and gearbox mounts replaced, head gasket, I could go on. Any of these will be likely to throw a four-figure bill, some far more, so the difference between a £5K S2, and the £7K car that's had more done, is really a no-brainer.

That's without even looking at the bodywork. An S2 that needs a bit of rust treating, and a ligt blow-over, might cost £2K. A more extensive restoration and glass-out respray will be a whole lot more. You could spend the price of the car again on paint alone....

I'm not being negative here. An S2 is arguably the best everyday road version of the 944, and the 944 is arguably the best Porsche of it's generation. It's certainly the best option compared with other late-80s cars of the same type. I'm just trying to say that every job a previous owner has done recently is a huge benefit. Trying to by a Porsche cheaply only ends up costing more in the long run.

 

[Ru2S7]

Hi Paul

Thanks for your thoughts, they're genuinely appreciated. I defer to you in these matters for obvious reasons however £10k is too much for me to spend on a second car. I'm sure you would agree that there are good cars available for my budget - but only as long as there is also money for ongoing maintenance?

 

[Ru2S7]

Hi

Thanks for sharing your experience, it sounds like mine so far - various states of repair and a broad range of prices. I know everyone tells you to buy a good car with the work already done rather than doing the work yourself, but if the fundamentals are sound and the price is right, i'd be happy to do as you have and spend a bit doing it up.

 

[Ru2S7]

Hi

Thanks for the tips. One question I do have is about the sills, do they all have a textured finish, like checker plate or anaglypta wallpaper? Is that standard rust protection?

 

[Frenchy]

RU2S7,
There are plenty of good cars out there for your budget, yes have a slush fund as there are nearly always a few jobs that need attended to, they are nuts and bolts the same as any other car and extremely well built and engineered, you can run one (i have 2) quite cheaply if you are handy with the spanners.
Bits can be sourced very reasonably, new parts are often cheaper than comparable parts for the likes of Ford and Vauxhall, that said some parts from the dealers are silly ???
If you are not too confident when looking at a car regards mechanics and bodywork have someone with you (or pay somebody) that said i am sure any local owners who know the car would look at the car for you.
An enthusiast owned car is a good bet with plenty of supporting paperwork, if you have to travel then so be it, good luck with your search they are out there.

 

[Ru2S7]

Hi

The £4k car was in reasonable condition but not great. The bodywork was generally good, the only area that would need closer inspection were the sills next to the front wheel arches. The interior was a bit musty (only mildly) but there were no signs of damp. The steering wheel and gear stick gaiter were tatty and the carpets and seats could use a shampoo. Under the bonnet it looked OK, no signs of gasket issues or oil leaks. On the road it pulled and braked well with no unexpected transmission or engine noises, plus the oil pressure was good. The service history said that the cam belt had been changed 2k miles ago but there was no receipt to verify this. Basically, if I did proceed, I'd make him an offer and hope that the fundamentals were sound. I know everyone says that you should buy a car that has had the work already done but I'm not gonna get that for under £4k.

 

[Frenchy]

Looking at the links can you stretch to 5 and a bit k as that car looks and sounds right, but take a good look at the paperwork and the car in general, yes the cars lower sections about an inch below the doors are finished in a stonechip textured finish from the factory, check that the little diamond jacking point indication indent is present below the door centre ( main jacking point).
The wheels look like Genuine Cup 1 and are worth at least 1k If good so you could sell them on and put standard wheels on for around £400 so that's £600 back for some legwork, i would personally stay with them as they are desireable and are money in the bank as they are always sought after, genuine wheels will have width and offset cast into the wheel either side of the valve.
Looking at the interior it must be enthusiast owned to keep it in that condition, not sure about the shiny bling on the steering wheel and the clocks ( not standard) but easily sorted, go take a look if you can stretch to it.

 

[zcacogp]

Russell,

Hey, welcome.

Everything that everyone has said thus far is spot on. But ... it's a slightly negative, gloomy outlook. You CAN find good S2's for your budget, and you CAN run them cheaply. Finding a good one at a good price is a matter of patience and keeping your ear to the ground. They are excellent cars (but then this is a 944 forum, so we would say that!) and, as Ed said, prices are all over the place. Take your time, don't buy in a rush, learn as much as you can about what a good one looks like, talk to your local indie (independent specialist) about any ones they may know of for sale and look at as many adverts as you can. The world of 944's is a small one, so if you think you have found a good 'un then post it up on here and we can have a look at it - someone on here may well know the car.

When you go to see one, let us know - there are folks on here who will happily accompany a potential new recruit to view a local car for some beer money (I'll happily do this for you if you find one in East London or Essex, and many others will do the same.) Alternatively (or as well), arrange to take it to your local Indie to do a pre-purchase inspection. It'll cost you £200 or so, but is pretty nearly essential if you don't know the cars. It could be £200 very well spent ...

As far as running one cheaply goes, how practical are you? If you are good at wielding spanners you can run one for a lot less than if you are paying garage rates. A full brake overhaul probably is nigh on a grand if you get someone to do it for you, but probably less than £100 if you do it yourself. Same with belts; the parts are probably £150 or so, labour is another £300 on top. A clutch kit is expensive (very expensive compared to other cars) at around £550 or so, but fitting it is also very expensive and you won't get much change out of a grand for that job. 944's are easy cars to work on tho', and there is a LOT of on-line support for the cars.

£5k should get you a reasonable S2 if you apply these rules. Take your time; a good one WILL come up, you just need to wait for this to happen.


Oli.

 

[edh]

ORIGINAL: Ru2S7

Hi

The £4k car was in reasonable condition but not great. The bodywork was generally good, the only area that would need closer inspection were the sills next to the front wheel arches. The interior was a bit musty (only mildly) but there were no signs of damp. The steering wheel and gear stick gaiter were tatty and the carpets and seats could use a shampoo. Under the bonnet it looked OK, no signs of gasket issues or oil leaks. On the road it pulled and braked well with no unexpected transmission or engine noises, plus the oil pressure was good. The service history said that the cam belt had been changed 2k miles ago but there was no receipt to verify this. Basically, if I did proceed, I'd make him an offer and hope that the fundamentals were sound. I know everyone says that you should buy a car that has had the work already done but I'm not gonna get that for under £4k.

Do you mean the front wing bottoms behind the wheels were rusty? - That's fairly cheap to fix. If the front of the sill section is rusty, then that's probably going to be a whole lot more but would need to get a camera into the sills to see what state they are in.

The cam belt may have been changed, but don't ignore the major potential weak spot which is the cam chain - small chain that drives the second cam. Needs the cam cover removed to inspect. This isn't a service item, but the chain, sprocket teeth and tensioner pad can wear, causing major damage if it fails.

I bought a 924S with a receipted belt change once - done the week previously. What I found out 2 days later is that they hadn't bothered changing the leaking oil seals, so the new belts were scrap & I had to get the whole job done again. No sign of an oil leak when i bought it as the undertray had been carefully cleaned.

It doesn't sound like it's been looked after very well to be honest, probably just run with the minimum of attention.