Rob's 944S track car thread
- Thread starter rsmith944
- Start date
Neil Haughey
New member
Simon you have to see Jonny's car. It is a stunning job he has done, it has the full weld in SD cage less the tricky X door bars but with a Y pattern instead for easier access. The whole car then trimmed back up with some tasteful trimming to hide the cage. Looks like a factory build, really really stunning quality of work.
944 man
Active member
It sounds it. As you know, I can talk for hours about lightening [
]. Johnny has done most of the things that I did and much of wht Id planned too. Id only got the jump on him with polycarbonate windows and hatch (and with a tiny bike battery along with an Anderson plug connection for a full size back-up).
I went to see a 931 this evening, which I was hoping would replace my aborted 5v turbo conversion 924S as a track day special. Uncracked dash and decent seats - it would have been too good to spoil with a cage lightening and seam welding, but unfortunately it didnt have any oil pressure. The fellow offered to knock me £50 off! Unfortunately he has little mechanical understanding.
Simon
]. Johnny has done most of the things that I did and much of wht Id planned too. Id only got the jump on him with polycarbonate windows and hatch (and with a tiny bike battery along with an Anderson plug connection for a full size back-up).I went to see a 931 this evening, which I was hoping would replace my aborted 5v turbo conversion 924S as a track day special. Uncracked dash and decent seats - it would have been too good to spoil with a cage lightening and seam welding, but unfortunately it didnt have any oil pressure. The fellow offered to knock me £50 off! Unfortunately he has little mechanical understanding.
Simon
944 man
Active member
One other point Johnny (and Rob): they seldom weigh anything like DIN figures in my experience. I weighed my car with me in, half a tank tank and some tools and it came in at over 1,300 kilos; and that was for a significantly lightened (rear seat, regulators, rear wiper, stereo, speakers, original seats and glass hatch) sunroof free series one...
On a more positive note though; when it was a little further developed I entered the cars actual original weight, plus me, into my G-Tech and it came back averaging 182 rear wheel horsepower. The point here being that had the car weighed as what it did when manufactured, then itd have needed over 200bhp to accelerate as quickly as it did when tested. When tested the car was completely standard mechanically, other than the Dansk exhaust which cant have added more than five horsepower.
Simon
On a more positive note though; when it was a little further developed I entered the cars actual original weight, plus me, into my G-Tech and it came back averaging 182 rear wheel horsepower. The point here being that had the car weighed as what it did when manufactured, then itd have needed over 200bhp to accelerate as quickly as it did when tested. When tested the car was completely standard mechanically, other than the Dansk exhaust which cant have added more than five horsepower.
Simon
Jonny944CS
New member
The sheet came together as an estimate, based on the actual weights of just the removed/replaced parts, during the build in 2009/10.
DIN weight is measured with full tanks and fluids. On real scales, my car weighed-in at 1095kg, with half a tank of fuel. Therefore, as Simon mentioned, it suggests the 1180Kg DIN is a bit low.
If you take the missing half tank (early steel type) as 30 litres or ~ 20kg, then it is likely the car left the factory with ~1200kg DIN. I suspect the 1180 figure, issued by the factory for pre 85.5 cars, was for the all-manual poverty-spec cars sold in Germany.
Neil Haughey
New member
That is still very light, my S2 weighed in at 1130 Kg on the corner weighting scales with 4 gallons fuel, and as you have seen its a fair bit more spartan than yours. I could easily get it under 1100 though but it would mean sacrificing headlights, swapping out the exhaust and probably downgrade the torsion bars (weltmeister 27mm ones in there).
Jonny944CS
New member
Interesting stuff Neil.
You've got me starting to doubt the scales I used"¦ Like you say, I still have carpets, stereo, trim and a passenger seat"¦ I'm trying to think what might be heavier on your S2.
- Extra cam + chain, larger head/manifolds/exhaust - 10kg?
- Oil cooler and larger sump "" 2kg?
- Late dash and wiring loom "" 3kg?
- Wider track suspension + GAZ 2 coil overs "" 3kg?
- Later sunroof bodyshell - ?
- 17" wheels and wide tyres - 10kg?
Probably still doesn't add up [&o]
The DIN estimate was my sanity check. At the time I reasoned that a 20kg increase would account quite nicely for the electric windows, mirrors and power steering gubbins fitted to pre-85.5 UK cars.
We clearly need a boxing style weigh-in to settle this [
] 
944 man
Active member
[] We dont all have torque to spare, you know!
I have to add, that all of my weights come from a commercial weighbridge, so theyre possibly less accurate than corner weighting scales. The bridge is only able to weigh in 20kg increments too; so while it can give an indication you couldnt really check you class weight limit with it...
I certainly agree about DIN weights relating to German poverty spec models.
] We dont all have torque to spare, you know!I have to add, that all of my weights come from a commercial weighbridge, so theyre possibly less accurate than corner weighting scales. The bridge is only able to weigh in 20kg increments too; so while it can give an indication you couldnt really check you class weight limit with it...
I certainly agree about DIN weights relating to German poverty spec models.
pauljmcnulty
Active member
I have a feeling there's a proper set of scales at Coombe. Perhaps that could be tied in with the Friday of the 50th anniversary weekend if there's interest?
944 man
Active member
The principal option involves removing the current engine and fitting either a turnkey S2 or Turbo engine. In order to get more out of the engine you really need different camshafts and to ditch the existing ECU and inlet/exhaust tract. Its usually easier to simply put a bigger engine in...
Neil Haughey
New member
Definitely go for an S2 lump, the difference in mid range oomph is stunning. Just ask Ben Eacock (EMC) about it as he has raced both and raced against S2's in his S.
Note as well that if one wanted to fit the FG front bumper to look like an S2/turbo its actually patterned to work with the earlier cars badge panel and wings anyway. This is why on my S2 it has a 2.7 badge panel to make it all fit together properly.
Note as well that if one wanted to fit the FG front bumper to look like an S2/turbo its actually patterned to work with the earlier cars badge panel and wings anyway. This is why on my S2 it has a 2.7 badge panel to make it all fit together properly.
rsmith944
New member
Hi all, actually managed a full day in the 944 at Donnington - was a great day. Full write up as always on the blog:
Donnington write up
Next up is rear wiper delete, lightening of the sunroof and lightweight braille battery. Question though - what do people use for data logging?
Donnington write up
Next up is rear wiper delete, lightening of the sunroof and lightweight braille battery. Question though - what do people use for data logging?
Neil Haughey
New member
Hi Rob, I had a great track evening come test shakedown of my S2 a few weeks back to test my engine. Only things I would add to your blog is that you forgot Swantz curve. For me this is the most exciting corner at Donny in my race car as its so fast you have to turn in early unpurpose as the car drifts out on entry over the kerb and into the braking zone for MacLeans. Hugely exciting. The other thing is that in a well set car you can get to full throttle half way between the 2 apex's at the chicane. I was seeing just over 120 on the speedo at the end of the pits as a result (more like 115 real speed), but braking a touch too early just after the end of the pit wall.
Another 2 pointers for anyone frightened by Craner. I almost spun off there earlier doing no more than about 95, really have to avoid turning into it late. There are loads of vids of race cars doing exactly that but copy that line in an S2/968 race car and expect to spin off. I learned to start turning very very gently at the point when you can't even see the corner due to the crest in the road. The other thing I had been advised about is you have to be on the throttle crossing the apex kerb to keep the car balanced. I did this eventually seeing an indicated 110 just after crossing the kerb and no less than 105 on the way in yet earlier I had nearly crashed the car going 10 mph slower. Its like a leap of faith corner to get on the throttle and trust the car will stick.
Rob I love to recap by watching this video of Pete Morris winning in his 968 a couple of months back
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JypGT3UmiZE
Pete is still killing me through old hairpin and on corner entry in most places. I know how much time that is loosing me though and its loads unfortunately.
I personally don't datalog but I do have a video camera and I glance down at the speedo before braking, after braking, apex and corner exit so I can get a good feel how I am progressing. There is a plethora of youtube race vids out there that show a data overlay that one can use as a guide. Quite a few ppl are using the racelogic or similar video and gps logger systems but they are all very expensive. Personally I think you really don't need any of that stuff until your down into the last 1 or 2 seconds of challenging for a championship. Up to that point its pretty obvious where one is loosing out.
Another 2 pointers for anyone frightened by Craner. I almost spun off there earlier doing no more than about 95, really have to avoid turning into it late. There are loads of vids of race cars doing exactly that but copy that line in an S2/968 race car and expect to spin off. I learned to start turning very very gently at the point when you can't even see the corner due to the crest in the road. The other thing I had been advised about is you have to be on the throttle crossing the apex kerb to keep the car balanced. I did this eventually seeing an indicated 110 just after crossing the kerb and no less than 105 on the way in yet earlier I had nearly crashed the car going 10 mph slower. Its like a leap of faith corner to get on the throttle and trust the car will stick.
Rob I love to recap by watching this video of Pete Morris winning in his 968 a couple of months back
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JypGT3UmiZE
Pete is still killing me through old hairpin and on corner entry in most places. I know how much time that is loosing me though and its loads unfortunately.
I personally don't datalog but I do have a video camera and I glance down at the speedo before braking, after braking, apex and corner exit so I can get a good feel how I am progressing. There is a plethora of youtube race vids out there that show a data overlay that one can use as a guide. Quite a few ppl are using the racelogic or similar video and gps logger systems but they are all very expensive. Personally I think you really don't need any of that stuff until your down into the last 1 or 2 seconds of challenging for a championship. Up to that point its pretty obvious where one is loosing out.
Posts made and opinions expressed are those of the individual forum members
Use of the Forum is subject to the Terms and Conditions
