Retiring the RS from battle.....

[Jamie Summers]

With the 968 CS about to arrive and the Clio race car - both of which will give me my track "jollies", I'm considering what to do with the RS........ It was never bought as an investment, but looks to have treated me well on that front anyway, which does make selling it a real temptation. It is a wonderful luxury to have in the garage, but justifying 3 track-focussed cars is a bit tricky (when I only really have space for one)....... and it is quite a lot of capital to have tied up in a lump of metal and plastic that gets very little use.
My thought process has got as far as retiring the RS from track duty - it has been great fun, and a challenge to learn to drive (plenty more learning still to do), but I have been lucky with no major mishaps other than a small self-inflicted over-rev injury, and with two other very capable track alternatives with rather less value at stake, it's not a hugely difficult decision.
Having got that far I am inclined to return the car to road-spec in the understanding that it might become a little more useable. With this in mind I am tempted to remove and sell the Motec system and return to Motronic. I have all of the parts I need to return it to factory spec both in terms of engine, interior and exterior (orig wheel, stereo, alu bonnet and mags), which would leave it as a very original car that ought to be of maximum appeal to a market that currently seems to seek originality, should I ultimately decide to sell.
My questions to the experts are......

1.) Remove Motec yes or no ? (my thinking is that it adds little to the sale value or saleability of the car, but has a clear second hand value to someone building a track 964)
2.) If I take it off, what's it worth (complete plug and play system) ?
3.) Do I remove the Matter bolt-in half cage and sell separately (have seen them for £1,500 !!!) ?
4.) What's a carbon bonnet worth ?
5.) What is a good set of Cup 1s worth (powder coated black with diamond turned silver rims) ?
6.) Am I crazy to be even contemplating any of this ?????

Being able to sell off a few £k of nice parts without affecting the ultimate value of the car, and returning it to a state that enhances its attraction to the market seems to make sense to me, but I can't help the nagging feeling that I might regret doing it...........

Answers on a postcard.......

Jamie

 

[964RS]

Don't sell Jamie. [&:] Remember I went through the same thinking process 2 years back? In the meantime the cost of entry into the '64RS has continued to rise. You've heard it from many people that they regret selling theirs. It's better than money in the bank - agreed it's no longer seen as a trackday proposition sadly - fewer and fewer people I know on this forum have their 64RS anymore and fewer track theirs. [8|]

I kept mine but bought a '68CS LHD. That started me racing - so now I have an route for trackdays and racing without needing to use the '64RS. []

Yes retire it from trackdays but keep it is my recommendation. It'll beat any pension of the same value pound-for-pound even after upkeep. I can still see the RS Basic reaching GBP100k even without low mileage. [8|]

 

[ras62]

I dont think the Motec system is plug & play, there are usually new injectors and MAP used so I would think twice before removing it as the Motronic will not work correctly if at all. It is maybe worth 1k as a unit, likewise the Cup 1's. In answer to 6.) YES[]

 

[Melv]

Keep it on storage and watch its value increase!!!!

Let a new owner, if it goes that way. Decide on the 'bits'. May give you more room for negotiation?

 

[PhilRS]

I have another suggestion:

Let's sell them "en masse."

They will loose value overnight, be bought again by enthusiasts (maybe ourselves?) who will track them instead of becoming the garage queens of middle-age men who are starting to worry about their pension funds!

[][][][]

ORIGINAL: Melv

Keep it on storage and watch its value increase!!!!

 

[clubsport]

Totally down to how else you could use the money.

There will always be a hindsight regret, especially if prices do move higher,,,that is a tough call, as interest rates will go up at some point, house prices and cars sitting in garages will be negatively affected........Before/if they ultimately go higher?

If it's not financial, then just keep it, most of us have got our cars how we like them, as in they are a known quantity.

If you had to go out now and buy another RS at most likely a higher price than you paid, for a used car you didn't know...would you?.......I don't think I would be a buyer!

I think now or in the next few months, is a reasonable time to sell, especially as the euro is at a 14-ish month high.

Ref, the parts. standard cars seem to sell better...the implication of a track modified car, is that it has had a harder life than a garage queen...even without seeing it!

 

[clubsport]

ORIGINAL: Melv

Keep it on storage and watch its value increase!!!!

Wow! That is a quote that need repeating and preserving.......The mantra of the PCGb RS forums! []

 

[Hacki]

Des, where are you?

 

[clubsport]

ORIGINAL: Hacki

Des, where are you?

No doubt busy finalizing the details of the sale of his 964 RS ! []

 

[Laurence Gibbs]

Jamie
i think the majority of those of us that bought our cars "before they were famous"[] have similar feelings. I know i do. I get the jitters knowing that you can bin the car real easy on track without any of it being your fault , let alone making a simple mistake all on your own[]
There is no easy answer. I do think that one day the insurance companies are going to make up my mind for me , when it gets finacially difficult to get cover on track for such expensive cars. Until then i will keep on enjoying one of the very best track cars my money can buy.

 

[Damen]

Hi Jamie

I'd sell unless you're in this for the longer term.

Bin the Motec. The current 964RS buyer wants a standard car not one that's been messed with.

Sell all the non-original bits and put the original stuff back in the car. It'll be more enjoyable as a day to day proposition and, of course, worth more should you decide to sell.

The 964RS is no longer a serious track proposition. It's still fun on track but worth more pampered and that's the future for our cars. £200k in 5 years time for an original car???

Damen

 

[Jamie Summers]

Thanks all for your thoughts - a very interesting range of views, but the overwhelming messages seems to be to keep it for now, which I can't say is a huge surprise ! I wasn't really expecting the Porsche equivalent of turkeys voting for Christmas []

In answer to ras62, yes, "plug and play" on the Motec is a bit of an overstatement - it is a little more involved than that, but nothing that is irreversible. No internal engine changes required - it is all just bolt-on ancillaries that need to be replaced, all of which I have boxed up in the garage. Either way I suspect the second hand value should be greater than the cost of re-fitting the Motronic.

So, for now it looks as if returning the car to factory spec and selling a few bits might be the way forward. There is no immediate financial pressure to sell the car, just the continual disapproving looks I get from Mrs S any time cars are mentioned !!!!

I intend to live with the 968 CS and the RS for a while, and see if the 968 gives me enough of a buzz on road and track before making any drastic decisions. Who knows, it may end up that the 968 will be the one to go .........

Jamie

 

[oldtimer]

ORIGINAL: Jamie Summers

Thanks all for your thoughts - a very interesting range of views, but the overwhelming messages seems to be to keep it for now, which I can't say is a huge surprise ! I wasn't really expecting the Porsche equivalent of turkeys voting for Christmas []

I think you may need to give it more than 19 hours after your first posting to close on the feedback or make a decision !

Most of the interest now is in buying with view to asset appreciation , folk are not buying to go on trackdays any more.
If you do go ahead and sell , you will enjoy all the questions about original panels , original paint , matching numbers , has it ever been in an accident / on a circuit / out in the rain etc etc []

 

[Yoda]

Hi Jamie

I hope you are keeping well. I think the easiest way to think about it is if you had £65k in your pocket (or whatever the going rate is for a 964 RS), would you buy a 964 RS and what would you use it for? There are better investments. There are better road cars. There are better track cars. For some people though, it is the ideal car and it will be money well spent. I don't think that is where my money would go but that is just me.

I sold mine a few years ago and while I sometimes regret selling it, it is never for financial reasons but because I miss driving it on track. I invested the money elsewhere and it out performed the 964 RS so I could, in theory, buy back in. If you use the proceeds to earn <1% in a bank you might feel differently of course. If it allows you to try something else that you have always wanted then it makes sense.

As for value, the market seems to pay up for good, original cars so reverting to std would probably make sense. Seems a bit of a shame as I remember your car went pretty well in its current guise []

Regards

Feroz

 

[carreraboy]

ORIGINAL: Hacki

Des, where are you?

Hmmmm ..... not really the right guy to ask at the moment, having requested my White RS back to enjoy this summer it sold overnight, my advice Jamie is buy the wife a puppy and take her on a second honeymoon and have a vasectomy .... so no more school fees .... Honestly keep the car, it will be worth more and enjoy it ....

Interesting story ... While selling my bands down at Goodwood Revival, a South African bought two bands for his 2.7 RS (Real) 964RS MOO2, he just sold his 993RS. Why I asked, it was disappointing compared to the others .... Jody his name ....[8|]

 

[jason]

Jamie if you're not going to use it and its not for pure investment purposes (they can go down as well as up) then I'd say sell it.

If you are getting what you need for your car thrills elsewhere there's no need to be precious.

If you feel it would be a good long term investment, you don't need the money or can't do better elsewhere (mortgage pay off, other investment etc) then keep it, it's a car you know.

Just my considered view...

 

[RSGulp]

To echo some of the comments above, if you need to release the money, could make it work harder elsewhere and you KNOW you wouldn't miss or regret it then maybe it's time to sell.

If you can sit on it and continue to enjoy it then keep it ...for now at least.

In today's market I'm not sure that a caged/Motec'd car makes a huge difference (+/-) in terms of prices being achieved, but can see this changing over the next 5 to 10+ years where originality will be king.

A final thought...

The return on investment resulting from my ownership of an RS has been much more than just monetary. I've certainly enjoyed owning, driving, maintaining and making improvements to the car...

But in addition to all that, the community I've become part of, the events I've been to, friends made, knowledge gained, banter & laughs have all made ownership of the car much greater than simply owning the hardware. It's the 'money can't buy' aspect of ownership, the 'grin factor', which I would certainly miss if I sold the car and put the cash into property/shares/nappies. []

 

[Melv]

Nappies? Summat you want to tell us???[]

 

[RSGulp]

ORIGINAL: Melv

Nappies? Summat you want to tell us???[]

You've never noticed my funny walk?

 

[carreraboy]

ORIGINAL: RSGulp

To echo some of the comments above, if you need to release the money, could make it work harder elsewhere and you KNOW you wouldn't miss or regret it then maybe it's time to sell.

If you can sit on it and continue to enjoy it then keep it ...for now at least.

In today's market I'm not sure that a caged/Motec'd car makes a huge difference (+/-) in terms of prices being achieved, but can see this changing over the next 5 to 10+ years where originality will be king.

A final thought...

The return on investment resulting from my ownership of an RS has been much more than just monetary. I've certainly enjoyed owning, driving, maintaining and making improvements to the car...

But in addition to all that, the community I've become part of, the events I've been to, friends made, knowledge gained, banter & laughs have all made ownership of the car much greater than simply owning the hardware. It's the 'money can't buy' aspect of ownership, the 'grin factor', which I would certainly miss if I sold the car and put the cash into property/shares/nappies. []

Fetish!