Non-availability of new sills

[George Elliott]

^^^^^^
Absolutely agree.

Terry,
The sill definition I use is "from under the lower rear edge of the front wing to the back wheelarch edge" (which is why the wing needs to come off to do it right)

The Sill Porsche supply is better defined as " the bit of the sill below the door" as can be seen in the ebay images above.

The fabrication answer is, yes - unless you make up the bit from the door to the wheelarch you dont have a complete replacement sill. And when you do this there is a weld seam to join this into the Porsche sill, and another to join it into the quarter. All the seams will be a corrosion challenge.

George
944t

 

[stevejohnson]

Thanks for all you replies

I trusted the repair three yrs ago to a body shop recommended by my local porsche independant specialist - seeing it all laid bare by the current bodyshop, basically it seems , they cut out the rusty bits and filled it all with lots of filler! They said they'd used lots of rust inhibitor - but who knows?

I have subsequently rung a repairer in Birmingham said to do lots of 944 sill repairs - they confirmed the non-availability of original sills. They said they were using 968 sills (which are £50 more per side) which fit with some slight alterations.

I've seen the sills on e-bay but probably shot myself in the foot by sparking a bidding war by posting this post!
I'll probably go the 968 sill route

Steve

 

[PSH]

ORIGINAL: George Elliott

Of course you could get a replacement rear quarter and remove the missing bit of sill, but at £600+ a side that works out pricey.

George
944t

err.. yes... that is what I did for the nearside sill about 5 years ago, rear quarter was over £800 from OPC, this was then cut up just to use the bottom sill part. I must have been mad but I didn't like the idea of fabricating this part. Today I'd probably go that way, perhaps I'm just a little more careful with money in my old age. At some point I must take a look at the drivers side to make sure all is ok although it sounds solid and there's no sign of anything showing through the paint. However the only part that I haven't had work done to is the nearside front wing that has signs of corrosion along the sill section, I'll get this sorted once the car is back on the road.

Pete

 

[T3rra]

The problem with a sill repire, later 2 be found as a bad one, is it let's the real rust go unnoticed, working it way though the inner sill. One reson I never jump 2 an advert that's had the sills already done.

I'm braking my last 944 now due 2 this. It didn't have a spot off rust on it from the outside. I even had the sills striped off there stone chip 2 check b4 a full respray. A few months later my fresh paint was blister. Then I found out about the camera in the door vent trick. Was quoted £300 2 have the face off the sills cut out and fresh metal put back in, repainted. But I new a real job would need more then that. Having spent 2x the amount off a good priced turbo on it, I could off done this and sold the car on, But I'm honest.

Anyway a few months later and the jack point when pop. Both sides. Still no visual rust on the car. Still none now. But I no the rots 2 deep 2 save.

 

[colin944]

I ended up replacing the floor as well as the sills.bottom of the fromt bulkhead,bottom of the rear quarters and loads of other bits as well.In order to do the job properly you need to fabricate loads of bits that you cant buy.I did it myself but it still cost me £900 in panels as well as 1/2 a 6 by 4 sheet of 1.5mm galvanised steel and 1/2 a sheet pf 1mm galvanised sheet. A big bottle of gas, a roll of welding wire and loads of spot weld drill bits Total cost of all material was in the region of £1100 not including my labour to do the job.After that you have to factor in paint primer undserseal and rust protector like waxoyl in the sills.
In short i would say only use Porsche sills the repair panels on ebay are crap as Al quite rightly pointed out.I have seen a few people doing sill repairs some very well and some very badly.If your not going to do it right then don't complain when they burst through 6 months or a year later.

 

[George Elliott]

I think Porsche probably want the 944 off the road, and the decision to cut supply of the sills is very clever.

Every bodger in europe will now ruin the 944 population with patches and filler.

As the 996 engines self destruct, the company cannot have 30 year old 944's showing 200k miles on the original crank bearings.

Any thoughts on why some-one in Germany who is responsible for keeping spares in the business, has suddenly deceided not to. Too busy shipping RMS kits?

George
944t

 

[T3rra]

Scandless, but I'm sure there still supplying 911 parts off simmler age?

 

[Lowtimer]

ORIGINAL: George Elliott

Any thoughts on why some-one in Germany who is responsible for keeping spares in the business, has suddenly deceided not to. Too busy shipping RMS kits?

I thought this would happen as a result of Porsche being swallowed up by the VAG group, which is one if the reasons I had my extensive body rebuild when I did, rather than wait longer.

 

[T3rra]

Vw group, is owned by wolf gang Porsche ? so !!!

Or a large % anyway.

 

[George Elliott]

I think cousin piechgang is the head honcho of the empire

ask weidekinggang - he learned where the power lay recently

now its all shiney showrooms, bling and diesel lemans racers........bring back the 956..........& 951 sills

George
944t[

 

[colin944]

I think Porsche probably want the 944 off the road, and the decision to cut supply of the sills is very clever.

Every bodger in europe will now ruin the 944 population with patches and filler.

When I bought my sills and floor pan 2 years ago I had to get the floor from Promax as porsche UK didn't stock it and I had to wait 4 months for one sill and 3 weeks for the other.

I also hope that you are not tarring us all with the same brush when you say that.My job was far from botched I spent alot of time and effort fabricating panels to be a copy of the origionals.I even used thicker galvanised steel than the factory did.Most of the metal in a 944 is 0.8 mm. I used 1mm and 1.5mm in order to make the panels stronger than they were from the factory.
Unless you have actually tackled the job yourself then you can not comment on the quality of other peoples work.

 

[George Elliott]

Coiln,
far from it, just referred to the bodger population who are alive an well. I have no doubt someone like you may see it as a labour of love - as I would myself. I agree it is possible to improve on the OE spec with slightly increased material gauge.

but the unavailability of sills, and the unwillingness of 944 owners to spend on proper sill fabrication which is expensive, will result in the bodgers out there picking up the £200 per side including materials sill repairs.

keep up your good work []

George
944t

 

[colin944]

Thats the problem George.My job looks the same from the outside as a £200 botch job.Only I and anyone that I can make look at the pictures will know what has been done.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

I think Porsche probably want the 944 off the road, and the decision to cut supply of the sills is very clever.

Well, that's one conspiracy theory too far for me. [&:]

Porsche have always kept stock of parts at a reasonable price until they run out. Then, they have to decide whether to make a new batch, based on both demand, and a competitive price being possible whilst making the a decent profit. They are only a business, not a charity, after all. certainly, when you talk to Porcshe people they generally have a very soft spot for the 944, and will often remind you that it was a car that saved the company at the time, and was better than the equivalent 911.

I have asked, so let's see what the reply is? I'd guess that Porsche have to make a business case, and that other companies could probably make the same part at a cheaper price. We need to accept, and understand, that the 944, and the 924/928/968, aren't classic cars in the same way as a 356. If we were prepared to spend £30K on a restoration I bet plenty of suppliers would be falling over themselves to help. As it is, we see £45 repair panels that cover the rust, because most owners want to do a job for a the least money possible. It's, again, just simple market forces.

Also, plenty of old cars are restored without replacement parts being available all the time. Decent restorers can fabricate repair sections, or we'd see a lot less classic cars left. I don't think that it's necessarily a bodge to have a car restored this way if it's done well. Again, that's down to cost, of course.

 

[George Elliott]

I have asked, so let's see what the reply is?

Paul, when do you expect a reply?

I am really interested as it seems to me they pulled the availability of sills.......just when the 944 population need them, until recent years they were seldom required.

Thanks for enquiring

George
944t

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Paul, when do you expect a reply?

Piece of string. [&o]

Porsche aren't easy to get access to. The UK side is just slightly difficult, the German company is completely unapproachable. We have some long-term Club members who've built up relationships with the Porsche heirarchy over many years, so hopefully that gets us at least an answer as to whether they will be continuing to supply this part, and what their future supply plans are.

There are two things to consider here. Firstly, how many threads have we seen about Porsche's refusal to deal with the problems on modern models, such as RMS or intermediate-shaft failure? The 944 isn't valuable enough to be part of the Classic programme, so we have to accept that parts supply is on a profit-only basis. Secondly, we've begun to expect Porsche community membership to cost nothing. I'm not having a go at people for using the Club forums for free, you all know my attitude to that. I'm just suggesting that 600 or so Club members with 944s carry less clout than, say, 800 or 1000. We expect to be part of a community for free, but there is a real case for future parts supply in joining as one buying group.

That might be more co-operation between Clubs; again, anyone who's followed my PH posts will know that I've tried that and failed. It might mean more people have to accept that Porsche see owners who join Clubs as more "serious" long-term customers, and our shrinking Register numbers sends them the wrong message? I don't know, just some of my personal ideas. []

 

[944 man]

Id noticed that TIPEC seems only to promote itself on PH threads, so I added my contribution. One can only presume that theyre having issues?

 

[George Elliott]

Piece of string.

Its a great shame the company treat its enthusiastic customers so shabbily. If I called Morgan in Malvern, and asked a simple question I would get a straight answer. When I have dealt with Germans in business, they are courteous, shrewd, prompt, organised.

But for some reason the Brand is run by such a bunch of berks that your answer is "piece of string" - to something as simple as a couple of sills that cost a hundred quid. Made from a small section of sheet mild steel that cost less than a tenner and a single stamp of a press tool. You deserve a medal for speaking to them Paul, and another for making it sound reasonable for them.

Its the reason I ditched my membership (Number 43951) a few years back, because this type of Support[] is not worth 20 pence pa.

One day I will flog my Porsches and replace the lot with a GTR and an S Class. And a 3 wheeler Morgan. By then they will have a front engined, front wheel drive 911 on the Golf platform, and a 917 on the front of the brochure which will be of higher quality than the dashboard.

Tell the clown who can't give you an answer that he is causing customer (explain what that is) dissatisfaction, and also that you expect an answer in a week.

I look forward to your update and will give some thought to an appropriate medal for you.

George

 

[SUSIT]

Does anyone have near side and off side outer sills we could use as pattern to get some made?

Some years ago the Stratos club did a group buy to get replica coffin spoke wheels made and more recently help an Italian company to get a large batch of door glass made. So it can be done and might not cost as much as people think.