Newbie - looking to buy, what to watch for?

[StevenRaith]

Evening all, and a happy Easter.

I've been peer pressured into giving 944s serious consideration by some of my more hilarious internet cohorts, the Evo Magazine forum, where I've been a member for more than ten years. And had a driving license for the last two.

I've gone from a Micra, to a very yellow Puma Millenium edition, but recently I've felt that I've hit the limits of what even a lovely FWD chassis can offer me. I was looking at S14a Nissan 200SXs, thought I'd check out 944s for a laugh to see how far out of my range they were. They weren't - in fact an unmolested 200SX is about the same price as a daily hack 944. This shocked me, as the 944 was one of my bedroom wall cars for a while, and I've always had a soft spot for 'em.

Insurance quote on a 944 S2 3.0 was reasonable enough (a turbot would probably be pushing it, and I don't need that much power), so I've started investigating whether it's possible for me to run one.

Finances.

I have £3k in savings, but I don't want to spend it all. Sort of defeats the point of them being savings, arf. I'd be willing to spend £2k without too much trouble.

Collateral

I have that Puma, it's in reasonable enough nick, mechanically sound and other than rear rust arch (they all do that) it should be nice and cheap motoring for a few years, and probably worth around £1000, seeing as it recently had new bushes, fuel and brake lines, etc.

Skillz

I'm handy enough with a socket set, but don't have a driveway and live on a slope so anything involving lifting the car is a no-no. If the top end on my current steed went, I'd have no problems pulling the head off the Puma if I had to and switching out cams and valves myself, if that helps gauge my mechy tech skills. I'd need to consult a mate to help with setting up timing get, but the heavy lifting doesn't concern me.

I'm also fairly comfy with machine polishers, t-cut and a bob of wax - always an easy way to get a couple of hundred quid off a sale price sticker, or add a couple of hundred quid to it, as I'm sure we all know.



In short.., what I need to know is, given my finances and mild spannering abilities, is would a 944 be a push too far?

What should I be looking for, and what should I be avoiding?

Or should I stick with, say, an MX-5 and then kick myself in a couple of years when I suspect even 'ropey' 944s won't be less than £4k?

Thoughts, ideas, insults, all welcome.

Oh, and I'll be at Specialist Cars Maltons Easter Meet thing on Sunday if anyone wants to point and laugh at my fantasies in person

 

[Lowtimer]

2.5 16V car not the cream of the crop; Lux or S2 or Turbo all better in various ways.
Rust is the main enemy; belt changes, head gaskets and brake calipers number among the main expensive mechanical rectifications. Apart from that it;s all conventional used car stuff.

It's all here, anyway
http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=38842

I'm not at Malton on Sunday because I'm on holiday in Cornwall, but will be back in North Yorkshire probably late the week after next. If you are based up there let me know and when I get back I'll show you where to look for galloping body rot and similar gotchas. I'm in Northallerton a lot of the time.

 

[StevenRaith]

A kind offer, Lowtimer, I may take you up on that.

There is a black 3.0l for sale local to me, which I have been hovering over the 'contact seller' button for over a week now:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3752994.htm

Matching tyres and the bridge spoiler, and the right colour...but I'm wary of being treated as a tyrekicker, which I may end up being at this rate without advanced knowledge of what to look for.

Was thinking of offering £2k and the Puma...

I'm in Scarborough, not that far in the grand scheme of things...

 

[Lowtimer]

Looks worth investigating on the face of it. Would be worth calling up to find out about the maintenance history. A car can have a full Porsche service history and still need thousands of pounds chucking at it, simply because there is lots of stuff that eventually wears out or rots away that isn't covered by the factory service schedule. The biggie is when were the belts last done (these days usually time, four years max, is the limiting factor rather than mileage), and on an S2 has the timing change that connects one camshaft to the other been replaced.

Worth finding out too who has been wielding spanners on it for the last few years. So it;s not the number of stamps in the service book; it;s the detail of what the maintenance records actually say has been done.

 

[StevenRaith]

Aye, I had a look through those FAQs.guides, thinks like the alloy brake calipers appear to be an....interesting point. I wouldn't expect that being inspected/replaced to be part of the regular maintenance schedule!

Going to absorb some more of those guides, go the the thing in Malton on Sunday, then see if I can build up the courage to call that one up!

 

[simdel1]

Hmm, that Puma does look nice.

Good luck with the search. Take your time, there's plenty of rubbish cars out there and the nice ones don't cost that much more.

I shouldn't worry about being treated as a tyre kicker if you've read the FAQs. The thing that annoyed me when I was looking for one was the number of times I heard the phrase 'But you have to remember that it's a 25 year-old car...' []

In terms of spannering ability, mine isn't great (but I'm getting better) but the 944 is not that difficult to work on. Mainenence budget was a concern for me too, which is one of the reasons I decided to go for a pre 1985.5 lux. Many of the parts on the earlier cars are cheaper. Besides, I prefer the Lux because it's the lighter and more 'direct' car. It is the slowest though!

The MX-5 could be the cheaper car...although many Mk1 MX5s now seem to be succumbing to rust. I contemplated an MX5 myself, but the deciding factor was simply that it wasn't a Porsche!

 

[Doogal]

I'm on the hunt for one and the sills appear to be a big one to check, along with the belts ... There Is a good write up in the classic and sports car magazine this month !

 

[timfield]

I bought a really nice looking 84 lux last year for £1200 that had just had the belts done, very good interior, all new tyres with repainted wheels, service history blah blah blah!
I've done all of the work myself but am probably getting up to £700 on parts, new rear wheel bearings, new front and rear pads, new brake hoses, new front discs, new front bushes, oil and filters and many hours playing to get the rear hatch lock working, plus the drivers electric window, resoldering the wiper relay so that intermitant works again, tinkering to get all the dash lights back on (not quite sure what got that going in the end!) etc...
But I have to say I don't begrudge it at all, I love the look of the early cars, I love that it doesn't need to do 120 mph to feel exciting and it's still fast enough to give most modern cars a really good run for their money.
As mentioned above it's also a Porsche and thats always got to be good!
I would like to think that the next few years should be easier on the wallet but with old cars thats never the case. Mind you my friends had a new alternator on their Disco 3 and they were pleased with a bill of £670 thinking that was good value!
They have now just spent £2000 on a service, some bushes and a couple of other widgets, so I think my 944 is good value!

I hope that helps in a long winded kind of way!
cheers
tim

 

[StevenRaith]

I have to admit, I've gone off the idea of that S2 - as noted, the later cars are more complex and at the age, no more or less reliable.

I'm having to tell myself that a MkII MX-5 or Mk3 MR2 is a better idea....and now you are talking about 2.5 Luxs.

Gah, the search starts again. 944, MX-5 or MR2...however, I think it's best I sit on the idea, and probably find a car to see me through the winter once I've given the Yellow Peril a good thrash over the summer. Not that I need to change the Puma - it's fine. I just fancy some RWD fun.

I'll miss the Pumas QuickClear windscreen in winter when it comes around though - it's witchcraft I tells thee, five minutes of that, and the ice is gone....I'll also miss it's ability to exploit a good scandanavian flick on a cold, wet road.

I tells you, if you ever need a FWD snotter at short notice, get a Puma - brilliant little cars, and I know I'll have another one a few cars down the line. I feel a bit bad for considering swopping it now....or is that just Grolsch-fuelled depression? []

Incidentally, the fact that the 944 is a Porsche means nothing to me, objectively. It's a good handling, well made, quick enough coupe. Kia could have made it and looking like it does and driving like it's reputed to, I'd still be drooling over it!

 

[J4CKO]

Steve, I got mine in Feb, previous owner had spent a fortune on clutch, hood(cab), respray, top end rebuild, alloy refurb, tyres and all manner of stuff. I do love it, they are great fun to drive but you need to be careful what you buy, stuff will come out of the woodwork.

Mine was a bit stiff from a lack of use, the gearchange was hopeless but either I have got used to it or the chain lube I sprayed on has had an effect, the indicators kee going metal, seems to be a contact issue on the bulb holder, A rust bubble has appeared to go with the other bits I was aware of and will sort over the summer, a check with an endoscopic camera didn't reveal any horrendous rot like some which look like photos of the Titanic after 100 years in salt water but the bubbles will need attending to to protect my investment, I look at this as in lieu of the depreciation I would have if I would have bought a modern, mass market car, potentially a decent 944 is an appreciating car.

There seems to be a lot of interest in 924/944's at the moment, judging the number of threads on Pistonheads, I think that they are due to start appreciating a bit, after all Ford Escorts are worth a fortune and the 924/944 is a better car than any Escort.

So, if you do go to look at any, spend £30 on an Ebay Endo cam and hook it to a laptop, remove the vent aft of the door and have a nosey round, they can look ok on the outside but still be a mass of oxide inside, luckily mine is just grey paint .

Mine is crap on fuel so have ordered a Lambda sensor for it, you end up doing a rolling restoration, they all need work and constant attention, they arent needy but they are old and you need to keep on top of them, you would miss the relative newness of the Puma, after my Saab it felt like going back to the 1800's, little fiddly stereo, no electronic display but you soon realise you dont need any of that.


You need to keep a float for issues that crop up, I reckon to get the bits of bodywork done I am in for £500, unless I do it myself, belts probably £400 as they are due in Sept as will be 4 years, but only 15k but I will get them done.

 

[Diver944]

We always used to say that any new owner should hold back an extra £1000 for almost immediate repairs once you've bought it, and then allow £1000 every year just in servicing and repairs as things wear out. A lot more people are doing DIY repairs now so it can be a little cheaper, however a lot more people are also reporting botched repairs by previous owners so it is luck of the draw how competent the previous owner was.

Always buy the best that you can afford but look closely for the expensive things having been replaced within the last 5 years or so - sills, clutch, fuel lines, shocks, brakes etc

 

[Copperman05]

At your budget range I would say a nice 2.7 lux would be where I would look, an S2 at that money may be disappointing but you should get a 2.7 without too much trouble. They are a little rarer but arguably the best of the lux range with more torque but still 8v design.


Edd

 

[944Turbo]

I bought my first despite it was a porsche not because it was, but was impressed with (the majority) of the engineering. The availability of the workshop manuals and the attitude to stocking and supplying spare parts is also impressive, there is even a couple of 911's I would consider owning now! (in addition to a 944 obviously)

 

[1540phil]

Hi there.

Despite the fact that we are suffering some intermittent starting problems ;(

We don't regret the purchase of our 944 lux.

She stands us at £800 all in.
No rust at all, slight paint fade but mechanically sound.
Awesome to drive, turns heads.

Why not buy a cheaper 944, keep the puma, leave your savings alone and have the best of both worlds?

 

[StevenRaith]

A glorious idea Phil, and one that makes my trousers happy (what? that's where I keep my wallet!) but on street parking, two lots of insurance and tax is just a stretch too far.

Had a fun morning out Malton by the way. I even found The Car Park Of Correctness, for yellow cars - the fastest ones:

Didn't manage to catch any 944 owners though, annoyingly. Had a tasty sausage sarnie and licked lots of exotic windows!

 

[StevenRaith]

Gah.

Thrashed the seven proverbial shades out of the Puma today, found new depths. Looks like a new car might be off the cards, and patching up the Ford snotter might well be.

It's a staggeringly capable car, and makes me glad I've spent so long amongst trackday warriors and fast-road real world drivers, and have listened to their advice (been on Evo ten years, had my license for two....).

See here
http://community.evo.co.uk/forums/thread.cfm?threadID=85780

For the devoid of clicking:

Gah, typical - I say that I've hit the limits of what I can do with FWD to justify a RWD/944 purchase, and then today....

Get up nice and early for the Malton Supercar Thingy. Tell myself I'm going to cruise over there, as 0830 on a Sunday is an ungodly hour.

I never drop below fourth on the way out there and I'm still overtaking all over the shop just thanks to not having to slow down in corners - and I'm taking them fast, hitting the torque in fourth and just cruising past like it was nothing.

On the way back, have had food and coffee, so I'm wired - I thrash it mercilessly on the same road, and find myself entering corners at silly speeds and just steering it around them on the throttle. Magical.

Then tonight, out to Hunmanby to get some Chinese. A few miles of town and dull A-road, followed by a violent right turn onto the main Hunmanby road. That GMaps road doesn't show the change in elevation, it's vicious.

Hammered up there at some speed, slinging the car around, letting the rear end make it's play, then onto the fast section afterwards, hitting the limiter in fourth towards the end.

Pulled up outside the chinese having found new depths to the Pumas chassis - it's amazingly malleable, capable of taking all sorts of abuse, and just soaking it up, and still flattering you as you hamfistedly mash and saw away.

Just thinking of attacking that road makes me wish I hadn't had a few drinks - so I could go out and hit it again.

New cars be damned. Unless my mate makes me an amazing offer on his 02-plate MX-5 (IE straight swap - unlikely) then the Puma will be staying for a while.

It's like every few months I learn something new about just what this car is capable of [8D]

And that means I can't chuck it and buy a ratty Porsche. It clearly has more to show me yet.

DAMN! []

Although I will be taking all your advice to heart. I plan to own a 944 one day. I need those boxy arches, damnit!

Also, I reiterate again, if you need a FWD snotter to see you for a year or so, get a cheap Puma, sort the bushes out, and be amazed at what a FWD car can do. Gobsmacking stuff. And the Kas will do the same at lower speeds with lower overall traction....

I'll still have something RWD soon enough...just not yet!

Edit: I'm going to keep my nose in here so I can keep tabs on common problems etc - nuff said