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New Kid on the Block from Lotus

I wonder how many of the deposits are from people who actually want to drive the cars rather than to trade them as a commodity in demand.

Previously one of the reasons that Lotus sold in such small volumes was that they were generally only bought by those who wanted to use and enjoy them. Compare that to Porsche GT products, including GT4, which have achieved halo status in the market, thereby sustaining volumes and profitability. But it is a fickle business.

It is an unfortunate reality that us driving enthusiasts are not, on our own, sufficient to support a successful business model.

My first Porsche, a base spec Cayman R, was purchased in 2014 after a direct side by side comparison with a supercharged Evora, both from the same dealer, both priced at £40k. I was able to try both in the Yorkshire lanes. I was moving on from an Exige S2 and the Evora contained that feeling of lightness and delicacy of touch, whereas the Cayman felt rather heavy and dull by comparison. However in most other respects the quality of fit and finish, the overall completeness of the Cayman, made it a clear winner at that time.

Since then of course Porsche has moved on from strength to strength, developing the Cayman to its current, extraordinary, level. But, as with the 911, it has been achieved by relentless development rather than anything particularly exceptional in the design and engineering. For me it continues to be the 'head' choice.

But, the original Elise, Exige and Evora were models whose DNA was based upon the rather special design and manufacture of the aluminium chassis and their light weight. My Exige was less than 800 KG and 240bhp. I am hopeful that some of that DNA is carried over into the new model and that Lotus can apply the gloss on which so many purchase decisions are dependent. Then perhaps the heart could be allowed to have its way next time.

 
At 1400kg John, I think the Emira is more Cayman than Exige so it's lost its USP in that regard. The question is whether Lotus can consistently match meet Porsche's build quantity and quality if it intends to be a seriuos rival.

Time will tell...

 
That’s my take on it too Dave, and I agree with John’s comment about many people diving-in in the hope of making a commercial gain, but unfortunately that’s just the way things are. It’s going to be a somewhat novel situation for Lotus!

Traditionally Lotuses have been hand-built, but my understanding is that the new production line will be highly automated which should boost quality control … once the initial bugs have been sorted of course! [;)]

Jeff

 
Lotus have made the decision with the Emira to move into the luxury premier sports car class which inevitably means increasing the kerb weight unfortunately. I agree with John's comments on comparing the Exige with the Cayman in years long past. I came to precisely the same conclusion: head over heart.

These days we driving enthusiasts have a diminishing market from which to choose our "affordable" driving machines. Lotus have an opportunity here to steal a few sales from the premier Cayman market, given that Porsche have never made it particularly easy to gain a place on the GT car allocation list. I recall the response I received from one OPC sales executive when enquiring about a GT4 back in my CR days, "You won't get one". That response alone would be enough to drive potential customers elsewhere.

I wish Lotus well with the launch of the Emira in 2022. I shall be watching closely.

Brian

 
As a serial Boxster owner before and after 10 years with an s1 Elise, from what I’ve seen to date the jury is still out for me. Lightness and simplicity was the Lotus mantra and this looks like neither. I’m pretty sure it will steer well (though how people can rave about this aspect in the advance of any reviews is a bit beyond me), less sure about the concept of making it more grown up - seems to lack any real luggage space despite its size? Not particularly sold on the looks - in my eyes too similar to many modern Ferraris, Mclarens etc, perhaps better in the metal, but it’s a big car.

I would imagine a fair proportion of the forward orders are from people looking for cheap motoring for 6 months or a year - my days of waiting months and months for a car are behind me I’m afraid.

I hope for the sake of Lotus it’s a success but from what I’ve seen so far it’s not for me.

 
David,

As I said in an earlier post [#10] - and Brian has emphasised in his post - Lotus has chosen to move into a different market with the Emira. By sticking to its traditional “lightness and simplicity” mantra Lotus has kept its enthusiast following onside but it hasn’t made them any money … and worse, has threatened the very existence of the company.

The car has drawn heavily upon Evora 2+2 underpinnings, so luggage space is somewhat of a bodge, relying upon the space behind the seats to supplement the rear boot.

Waiting months and months for a car are behind you? Maybe you should put that point to potential purchasers of 718 GTS Caymans and Boxsters. Lotus aren’t the only company with long delivery times! [;)]

Jeff

 
SpyderDavid said:
As a serial Boxster owner before and after 10 years with an s1 Elise, from what I’ve seen to date the jury is still out for me. Lightness and simplicity was the Lotus mantra and this looks like neither. I’m pretty sure it will steer well (though how people can rave about this aspect in the advance of any reviews is a bit beyond me), less sure about the concept of making it more grown up - seems to lack any real luggage space despite its size? Not particularly sold on the looks - in my eyes too similar to many modern Ferraris, Mclarens etc, perhaps better in the metal, but it’s a big car.

I would imagine a fair proportion of the forward orders are from people looking for cheap motoring for 6 months or a year - my days of waiting months and months for a car are behind me I’m afraid.

I hope for the sake of Lotus it’s a success but from what I’ve seen so far it’s not for me.

how simple do you want it, passive dampers, real steering, real diff/ none of these you can have in a Cayman or any GT car and still a manual if you wish ?

the old school design is what will make it drive well for fun, Porsche have engineered the fun out of the Cayman not that they have been fun since the 987.2 cars anyway !!!

the 981 was crap (for what I wanted) really, so much so I did not own one, the 4.0 GTS and GT4 are dull as dish water to drive !!! (unless you track a 718 GT) again I did not buy a Cayman 4.0 GTS.

and have switched to BMW Z4m40 atm. (I own the two best Porkers made in the last 20 years imo, so that's that from Porsche)

Also Lotus are stupid I think the cars 1330kg and has 416 BHp so well over 300bhp ton and the Cayman's not close, not even the 718 GT4.

it will be plenty fast enough and have all the feel you could ever want.

be in a class of one on the road if you live driving, if you buy for the badge and with your head ofcourse the Porsche wins, if you enjoy driving the Lotus will win by miles.

Nice to have a choice, but is it a choice !!! As for waiting for a Porsche well I waited for a 718 SPyder never came, and I tried to order a Boxster 4.0 GTS and was told no !

Porsche are like Rolex now, seems a lot about but you cannot buy a new one. Nasty company to deal with and service costs up 100%.

if you can buy a GT Porker new at list it is free motoring and that does apeal for a daily hence trying to get a Boxster GTS, but they don't make real drivers cars any more imo.

really enjoying the Z4M40 though VERY sort ratio's, is fast as a rocket and the roofs ten fold better than a new Boxster which was a shock. Tech is miles better also with idrive 7. I paid £40k for a 2k mile car and it's doing the daily job perfect and gets all the looks as it's so rare. (did not sell well)

Looking forward to my Emira (in Green) but will keep the 987.2 SPyder, the best car Porsche made for fun imo in a long time. I'll sell the GT3 at some point, but 3.5 years free use on a Super car cannot be all bad, I feel that was the best Porsche could do and it's is a monster of a car, but these cars are too fast really and maybe too good.

As life style Badge owning car I would have loved a 718 Spyder, but I would also like a Rolex Daytona , neither of which will happen ;-) Emira last of an Era car imo hence the rush on them. Last bit of fun we can have in cars.

 
Interesting, when configured it was about £4-5K more than the GTS I have on order. I do like it, not sure about the interior and while supercharged engines make lovely drivers cars the technology in that powerplant is pretty old hat and if they are using the same charger as it is in the Evora I have heard reliability issues too.

You cannot deny a great looking car

 
To me it looks like a Ferrari rip off and as you say Ryan, old technology in the engine.

It's not for me but I can see why it'll be a hit for a lot of people. Pricey though.

 
Yes, I think Lotus have gone for the mini-supercar look Dave. It’ll be interesting to see it in the flesh … the car’s doing the rounds at the dealers and I’m booked to see it at Silverstone in early November and will report back. Just a viewing I think.

I’m not sure if the Toyota V6 engined car will be around for long as it’s doubtful it will meet the very stringent Euro 7 emission standards. Having said that, even the I4 could struggle! [:(]

It seems that an entry level model will come in at about £60k … I assume that’s for the V6. It’ll be interesting to see if the I4 car is price-competitive with the 718 Cayman S.

Jeff

 
MrDemon said:
JohnCRS said:
It will be interesting to see the relative weights on these. The Toyota V6 is a heavy old lump but the 4 Cylinder AMG unit should be a tad lighter. Having had a supercharged Exige the 4 cylinder engine is OK for me, but I am disappointed at the lack of a manual gearbox.

the Emira is about 312 BHP/ton VS the 718 GTS at 277BHp/ton, nothing to worry about. Lotus quoted full DIN weights with drivers etc, the cars about 1330KG vs 718 1404kg and it has more Bhp

It appears things have moved on with Lotus now specifying a weight of 1405Kg in its Lightest form!

 
That's heavy. Great shame. But as Brian has pointed out, they are moving to the mainstream where luxury, comfort and technology matter more. Cars are getting like watches, where form matters more than function.

I'll get back in my box!

 
Ryan9729 said:
MrDemon said:
JohnCRS said:
It will be interesting to see the relative weights on these. The Toyota V6 is a heavy old lump but the 4 Cylinder AMG unit should be a tad lighter. Having had a supercharged Exige the 4 cylinder engine is OK for me, but I am disappointed at the lack of a manual gearbox.

the Emira is about 312 BHP/ton VS the 718 GTS at 277BHp/ton, nothing to worry about. Lotus quoted full DIN weights with drivers etc, the cars about 1330KG vs 718 1404kg and it has more Bhp

It appears things have moved on with Lotus now specifying a weight of 1405Kg in its Lightest form!

You need to be sure that weights are quoted like-for-like. The Cayman is 1,355kg (DIN) but 1,430kg (EC), and as noted it’s power/weight ratio which is probably more relevant. However, the Emira certainly isn’t a lightweight in true Lotus fashion.

Jeff

 
Twinfan said:
To me it looks like a Ferrari rip off and as you say Ryan, old technology in the engine.

It's not for me but I can see why it'll be a hit for a lot of people. Pricey though.

Pricy ! how do you work that out, it's a fully loaded 400bhp 180mph sports car which looks the bomb for £75k ! and will out pace a Cayman and feel more fun.!

I was expecting to pay £85k with options like a GTS Cayman is spec for spec.

I think it's bloody cheap. baring in mind the out going Evora 410 was £110k speced up.

And this will have proper brakes and shocks and forged wheels all standard, no crappy disks and P zero's here. you have a choice of Cup 2 tyres or Goodyears and proper AP brakes. And no ****ty PTV which I hate on Porkers.

Gearing will also be a lot shorter so the car will have a load more punch mid gear.

Old tech is cool that's why I have one on order, I see it as my Cayman R replacement from Lotus but with 70BHP more and brand new. Cannot see any thing not to like really.

seems a honest to drive Modern looking sports car with old tech, yipeee :) cannot wait.

what's is Lotus tag line "For The Drivers" So I can see why some people won't like it :) no driver aids lol.

 
Twinfan said:
At 1400kg John, I think the Emira is more Cayman than Exige so it's lost its USP in that regard. The question is whether Lotus can consistently match meet Porsche's build quantity and quality if it intends to be a seriuos rival.

Time will tell...

have you been in a 992, it feels cheap since VAG got hold of it. plastic every where and no Alcantara now, some cheap race tech stuff.

what cars 718 Caymans are not fairing well on the customer satisfaction. It's a main stream car now built to a price and lost it's fun, is it even a Porsche now ? Feels far more VW than Porsche to me.

the GT cars are POrsche the normal cars are sub standard for a sports car and you buy the badge now imo.

 
Having declared an interest in the Lotus Emira, no deposit paid, I'm walking away from the waiting list for the time being. I'm not keen on the Toyota supercharged V6 lump either, and for me with my right hand grip weakening, a DSG gearbox is essential. The V6 mated to a slush box is a complete no, no, and accordingly I would be favouring the 2.0 AMG turbo power unit with DSG. I see AMG have upped the power on this engine on the latest A45 evolution to 416bhp. Now that's more like it. Whether Lotus get offered this more powerful version of the 2.0t AMG is as yet unknown. The 4-pot turbo suits the Lotus better imo, being a lighter power unit than the V6 even with the DSG gearbox attached.

My sports car decision has already been made. I'm currently awaiting imminent delivery of a new 2021 Alpine A110 Legende GT DSG. It's not got the Lotus supercar looks, but I like the understated lines of the Alpine. The 2021 A110 run-out model has 292bhp and tips the scales at 1134kgs. The all-aluminium body and chassis provides an excellent power-to-weight ratio, and will punch above its weight compared to a similar Cayman.

In due course, I intend posting first impressions of the A110 comparing it to my extensive past experience with 5 Caymans. From the first 2008 987.1 2.7 manual, to my final 2019 718 Cayman 2.5t GTS PDK. My joint favourite of all, the 2012 Cayman R manual, is to my thinking the closest thing to the Alpine A110. Same short wheelbase, same width and track, aluminium 997 GT3 doors, less sound insulation, and an almost identical power-to-weight ratio.

The Lotus Emira has still to prove its worth in the build quality and reliability stakes. If Lotus can consistently match its premium competitors in this field, then the new Emira will most certainly be a car to compete with the Cayman. Meantime the Alpine A110 Legende GT will be an ideal stop-gap sports car for me bearing in mind the abundance of wonderful driver's roads in my locality. The A110 model holds it's value well according to current residuals, and if the Emira is as good as the publicity hype has us believe, then it'll be a serious contender in the premium mid-engined sports coupe market. I'll bide my time meantime.

Brian





 
Brian_Innes said:
Having declared an interest in the Lotus Emira, no deposit paid, I'm walking away from the waiting list for the time being. I'm not keen on the Toyota supercharged V6 lump either, and for me with my right hand grip weakening, a DSG gearbox is essential. The V6 mated to a slush box is a complete no, no, and accordingly I would be favouring the 2.0 AMG turbo power unit with DSG. I see AMG have upped the power on this engine on the latest A45 evolution to 416bhp. Now that's more like it. Whether Lotus get offered this more powerful version of the 2.0t AMG is as yet unknown. The 4-pot turbo suits the Lotus better imo, being a lighter power unit than the V6 even with the DSG gearbox attached.

My sports car decision has already been made. I'm currently awaiting imminent delivery of a new 2021 Alpine A110 Legende GT DSG. It's not got the Lotus supercar looks, but I like the understated lines of the Alpine. The 2021 A110 run-out model has 292bhp and tips the scales at 1134kgs. The all-aluminium body and chassis provides an excellent power-to-weight ratio, and will punch above its weight compared to a similar Cayman.

In due course, I intend posting first impressions of the A110 comparing it to my extensive past experience with 5 Caymans. From the first 2008 987.1 2.7 manual, to my final 2019 718 Cayman 2.5t GTS PDK. My joint favourite of all, the 2012 Cayman R manual, is to my thinking the closest thing to the Alpine A110. Same short wheelbase, same width and track, aluminium 997 GT3 doors, less sound insulation, and an almost identical power-to-weight ratio.

The Lotus Emira has still to prove its worth in the build quality and reliability stakes. If Lotus can consistently match its premium competitors in this field, then the new Emira will most certainly be a car to compete with the Cayman. Meantime the Alpine A110 Legende GT will be an ideal stop-gap sports car for me bearing in mind the abundance of wonderful driver's roads in my locality. The A110 model holds it's value well according to current residuals, and if the Emira is as good as the publicity hype has us believe, then it'll be a serious contender in the premium mid-engined sports coupe market. I'll bide my time meantime.

Brian

sounds the perfect car for your needs and those roads the A110, should be a hoot ;-)

 

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