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NEW 30yr old no MOT proposed legislation

PSH

PCGB Member
yes it's worrying days with the latest crazy stuff from the EU, if their other proposal due in next 5 weeks gets the green light it could be the end for modifying of any description.... truth is no one seems to know exactly what's what so we are all blind. The 30 year MOT proposals mentioned here are only a small part of what could effect everyone on this forum, any mods could be outlawed, PH have an ongoing thread on this. Pete
 
New EU Proposed legislation

Wonder just how strict they would be regarding midifications? Dump valves, Boost enhancers, air induction kits etc. Guess they would all be a problem.

Also seems a bit scary that as long as a car is standard it does not need suspension, brakes and bodywork checking every year. As much as I dread MOT time each year, I have had a few on cars and bikes over the years where they have picked up on items that I'd missed.
 
Well pretty much any rules on modifications could be totally impracticable as manufacturers modify their own parts through life and obsolete some parts making after market the only available choice. Could also be argued it would also destroy the aftermarket parts supply for two reasons; 1) An aftermarket part not made by the OEM can not be made to identical specification as 2) The manufacturers and OEMs hold IPR in the parts design and specifications making it impossible. Either a new rule would have to compel manufacturers to release all specifications for parts which will never happen or we end up in a complete lock in for the life of the vehicle, a situation manufacturers will no doubt massively abuse to force new cars on to the market. I don't have high hopes here when it comes to getting sense from the EU, they have always shown more interest in protectionism than consumer rights.
 
When this was on PH I was so incensed at the thought, I was sad enough to download the EU Document Proposal on this. I didn't read it word for word as very quickly started to fall asleep but the document talked about (from memory) current checks, measures etc but didn't actually say what the new proposal was. I could be wrong but it didn't really say what they are planning to do??
 
Cameron and Co should tell them all to F*** O** and leave us alone Any legislation like that is ignored by europe but because (thank you Labour for creating 720,000 more cilvil servants!!!!) we are so overgoverned we will adhere to the rules and our taxes will be used to pay for people to check on us. We will administer it marvellously and be the pride of Europe while all the time the car manufacturers who lobby under the environment when it suits them see it as an opportunity to get rid of older cars and sell more modern `green` cars Example: What other country prosecutes people for putting the wrong stuff in their bin - ie: what other country invested the money (can afford) in micro-managing this aspect of society!!! Sorry.........................................please dont get me started, its a nice day, its sunny and I refuse to get depressed at the state of this country.........................
 
a lot of European countries are much more strict on modifications than us. Just look at tuv in Germany. how many of our UK modified cars would be deemed roadworthy under tuv rules? I think it's a. ridiculous to try and blame the last labour government b. lazy to suggest that we are the only country that follows rules.
 
I guess the other issue to bear in mind here is that if this proposal was passed into law, most of our cars become worthless and the only way to get any worth back would be to scrap all of the mods and replace with standard OEM parts. I'm willing to bet that not one person on this forum would pass the MOT if this proposal is passed. Another thing to think of is what about parts/consumables that are stated by Porsche as 'the correct parts' that are no longer available. Brake pads,oil,sparkplugs,tyres the list is endless. Ok! this may be taking things a bit far but do remember we are talking about Brussel bureaucrats here, anything is possible and I bet those who make the final decision don't think far enough ahead in considering all possible consequences of this proposal. Pete
 
Not the least the fact Pete that the motor industry are likely lobbying hard to get such draconian regs as it bolsters their industry. Interestingly it wouldn't effect me much going forward, the race car is not likely to be used on the road in the future, the other cars are all as likely to be chopped in for other stuff. Its just a crying shame that this is the way things are going, have a nearly new boringly standard road car or a pure track machine as nothing in between would be possible. Massive disaster for classic cars which just can not be maintained using OEM parts when the OEM parts are no longer available, which is most of them including many older Porsches now.
 
ORIGINAL: edh a lot of European countries are much more strict on modifications than us. Just look at tuv in Germany. how many of our UK modified cars would be deemed roadworthy under tuv rules? I think it's a. ridiculous to try and blame the last labour government b. lazy to suggest that we are the only country that follows rules.
Naive of you if I might say [8|] Not so.................we have the SVA, they dont. Why refer old cars and their components to a modern TUV system, If you cannot fit a perfectly good brand new aftermarket part made to OEM standards because it is not an original part from the original (now defunct manaufacturer) then the world has gone mad. Will the Germans disallow all their classic Porkers on their roads if a perfectly sound aftermarket part is from India? You are missing the point I am afraid as it is a much wider net that is cast if you read between the lines for it will kill the hundreds and thousands of jobs in the aftermarket car industry in the uk which is the envy of Europe. Hence the huge amount of inovative independent car makers in the UK (and why most F1 cars are built here). The Germans and French etc have no way of monitoring such an industry so In Germany you have to crash test cars. If that happened here most small makers would go out of business as they couldnt afford to build a load of cars to crash test them.
 
I see this has hit the papers; http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/344491/EU-threat-to-classic-car-fans http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/9526693/Motorists-face-EU-ban-for-modifying-cars.html http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/motors/4525010/EUs-MoT-war-on-pimping-up-British-cars.html http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/60092/modified-cars-could-face-mot-fail What worries me more is even these articles don't seem to realise the true implication of this proposed EU rule. Here's the link to the Gov petition for those who wish to have a voice. http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/37784 dark days indeed... Pete
 
What worries me more is even these articles don't seem to realise the true implication of this proposed EU rule.
Exactly my point above - this has huge implications for any old or relatively old vehicle. Problem is that apart from good ol Maggie our successive Govt`s are and have been a bunch of soft fairy`s who never say no and then (unlike the competition over the channel) administer any rule with a rod of iron with the bloated Civil Service we`ve inherited.
 
Quite right Paul, the last 13 years of Labours ineptitude have certainly come to light in the last couple of years. Look what happens when they take their eye of the ball with concern to the banks, give them a bit more freedom to try and govern themselves and they all go into meltdown. We the tax payer then have to bail them out to the tune of many billions of pounds. I would have found it very interesting for one of them to go down the swanee. What really got me was when one of them is then sold for half the money paid for it to beardy Branson and the government then told us we were getting a bargain. I despise that the one eyed idiot and Mr Bliar are of Scottish decent, it really shows us in a bad light. Mr Millibland seems to be equally of limited intelligence. As usual, none of them listen to the people that vote them in. I find it all laughable at the state of the nation now and am not surprised so many people are emigrating, I know of 3 families who have gone or are going this year to new climes whose border controls are a bit better than our (used to be) fair land. Alasdair
 
This has all been the subject of very substantial misreporting. 99% of what has been written about this on various car-related websites and in newspapers is doom-laden nonsense written by people who have not read the documents and who have no practical experience of dealing with EU regulatory organisations. Those who have relevant professional experience relating to the development of legal and regulatory frameworks by the EU, and their interpretation and application by national authorities, are much less alarmed.
 
ORIGINAL: sulzeruk Quite right Paul, the last 13 years of Labours ineptitude have certainly come to light in the last couple of years. Look what happens when they take their eye of the ball with concern to the banks, give them a bit more freedom to try and govern themselves and they all go into meltdown. We the tax payer then have to bail them out to the tune of many billions of pounds. I would have found it very interesting for one of them to go down the swanee. What really got me was when one of them is then sold for half the money paid for it to beardy Branson and the government then told us we were getting a bargain. I despise that the one eyed idiot and Mr Bliar are of Scottish decent, it really shows us in a bad light. Mr Millibland seems to be equally of limited intelligence. As usual, none of them listen to the people that vote them in. I find it all laughable at the state of the nation now and am not surprised so many people are emigrating, I know of 3 families who have gone or are going this year to new climes whose border controls are a bit better than our (used to be) fair land. Alasdair
Problem is Alasdair its all been forgotten! The absolute disgrace (in my eyes) is the Labour rabble baying at the Coalition that their efforts are wrong, ineffective, too much etc etc etc. All they do is criticise but seem to have shrugged off the blame and actually believe it themselves. Milliband said they made mistakes but said it only once and immediately continued critiquing the present Govt............to**er!! Mr Brown (dont get me going!!!!) if he ran a company as a director he would be in court. He set up the FSA to manage and regulate the banks, knew it was failing, was warned it was failing and still carried on. When Major handed over the reins the country was in good shape, since the Labour lot came in they created 720,000 more civil servants, lost 25% of British manufacturing (yes 25%) ironically a decline in what was a boom era in the noughties!!!! Brown accepted EU regulations on our unique Pensions system that worked well for decades (but the EU saw it as unfair investment in British Companies) thereby stuffing most of us.........................the list goes on.................... Emigrating is not always the answer if you really look hard into it as we did a few years ago but if I were a lot lot younger I`d go as my skills would be snapped up abroad but I cant be *rsed as I have workd hard for a nice house in a village overlooking the countryside in a lovely part of the world and having been abroad a lot cant see anywhere much better to live despite the current problems. Ho hum.................... rant over.................back to cars................... [;)]
 
ORIGINAL: Lowtimer Those who have relevant professional experience relating to the development of legal and regulatory frameworks by the EU, and their interpretation and application by national authorities, are much less alarmed.
'Much less alarmed' could also be interpreted as much less prepared, for any possible consequences of their own lack of reading between the lines, something like Chamberlain during WW2 comes to mind. I don't count myself as one of the doom sayers and have said so elsewhere but I do count myself as someone of a high enough intelligence to ask the question 'what could this actually lead to?' It's no good saying after the event 'Oh we didn't think they meant this or that', who would be the biggest fools then? Always be prepared is my Moto, it's how I do everything if life. I hope you are right and this is all anti EU hype but lets's face the facts shall we, the EU has made some crazy decisions in the past and I have no doubt will continue to do so until checked. Pete
 
I don't understand... Many here react as if all EU countries applied EU regulations to the letter. Obviously, this it not the case, never was and never will be. It's all down to the government of a given country if another EU regulation may help it pump up any further money from tax payers.
 
Paul, Al - I'm glad I don't live in the same country as you - I'd be so depressed [;)] Didn't the EU break the cartel that manufacturers had over car servicing? so why would they impose one for car parts? As lowtimer says, there's a load of conjecture here, that's all. And there does appear to be another side... [link]http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=23&t=1190529&nmt=RE%3A+Modified+cars+safe%2C+for+now.[/link] btw - 720000 extra civil servants - sounds so much worse than 720000 extra doctors, nurses, teachers, police officers... (there are only around 600,000 civil servants total, but many million public sector employees, most doing useful jobs) And Brown didn't cause the global financial crisis - although he was almost as bad as the tories (who were calling for even less regulation) in being seduced by the bankers. Labour chose to spend the extra tax revenues, The Tories would have given it to their rich mates in tax cuts (see GW Bush). And oh yes - the decline of British manufacturing - how long has that been going on? 60 years? 100 years? Difficult to pin on Blair et al.
 
Paul, Al - I'm glad I don't live in the same country as you - I'd be so depressed
Its a nightmare alright! I know it sounds terrible to harp on or compare the past but when I was a small lad growing up in the 60's we had a manufacturing base, an inventiveness and schools and education that were the envy of the world and we all lived in a respectful society. I do feel a huge sense of loss as I see society dumbed down by presenting celebrities as heroes and an ever more anarchic mix of unsettled divided futureless ignorant people totally ignored by Govt (at their peril) yet who pass on their poor views and values at an ever expanding rate. I have totally given up any entrepreneurial ambitions (wealth creator/contributor) as it was too hard to keep anything you made due to boom and bust ( I ran my own Construction Company for 18 years contracting to the utility companies) however I note that in the last decade Labour managed to ensure that the civil service and local government pay structure has overtaken the private sector in many many areas. This means that the wealth spenders (non contributors) get paid more than the wealth creators in many instances. Interestingly - the biggest employer in Northern Ireland is the government!!!!!!!! So that means there are more wealth spenders in NI than creators!!!! How does that work!!! Still....................I`m here, working, got a nice lifestyle so......................ho hum.
 
The European Commission has now commented officially on recent reports: "Reports in the press that the European Commission has proposed to make modifications to cars illegal, or to ban classic cars unless they are unchanged since manufacture are entirely wrong. "The Commission’s proposals would not, if agreed by the Member States and the European Parliament, make any difference to the current situation regarding MOT testing in the UK except to make most classic cars more than 30 years old exempt from testing if they are not used day-to-day on the roads. "All other cars would remain subject to roadworthiness testing, just as they are now. Whether or not they have been modified is not of itself relevant: what counts is whether they are safe and that is what is assessed by MOT tests in the UK and by the equivalent tests elsewhere. "What the proposals will do is require all Member States to bring their road worthiness tests up to a certain level of rigour, already applied in the UK : for example, motorbikes will need to be tested regularly everywhere, as they are already in the UK. This will make driving safer for UK drivers at home and abroad. "The Commission is writing separately to all the newspapers concerned, none of which checked the facts with us before publication." http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/press-reports-on-ec-proposals-on-mot-tests-are-incorrect/
 
ORIGINAL: Lowtimer none of which checked the facts with us before publication.
... which is fine with me, at least on such a subject. Always healthy to light up a fire of contest so that EU commissioners get some social temperature.
 

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