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http://frwilk.com/944dme/afm.htm
This is something I found last year when my car had to have it's AFM overhauled for emissions.
This is something I found last year when my car had to have it's AFM overhauled for emissions.
My S2 has got MAF !
- Thread starter TTM
- Start date
MAP is even more difficult to get working than MAF. I'm sure I know of one or two people who have tried [
]![[FONT=verdana,geneva"]](/forum/styles/default/pcgb/space.gif ". [FONT=verdana,geneva\"]")
Seriously you're talking apples and oranges in terms of modifications. This is a direct bolt-on replacement for the AFM using MAF. MAP is more modern and while it may be another step forward again there isn't a bolt-on MAP solution for the S2. Those that have been available for the Turbo for some time still have fundamental problems. I'm going to stick my neck out and say that I don't believe a MAP solution using the standard 944 EMS is ever going to work, not because it can't but because it doesn't currently exist and there is not enough potential uptake to make it commercially viable to develop now for a 15+ year old model range, especially when replacement with a standalone EMS is always going to be hugely better and they are already available for not too frightening a cost (circa £2k-£3k to do it right, maybe less?) If you imagine a line with AFM at one end and MAP at the other the MAF would be much closer to the MAP end than the AFM end. If this works as well as Thom says (and I don't doubt his review) and it's bolt on for circa £450 then you get maybe 80% of the improvement of MAP for a no-hassle purchase. You won't get 80% of the improvement of a standalone including MAP but you are going to spend less than 25% of the money at worst and trust me (and Rick) standalone EMS on these cars is heartache, hassle, frustration and unexpected £££££.
] Seriously you're talking apples and oranges in terms of modifications. This is a direct bolt-on replacement for the AFM using MAF. MAP is more modern and while it may be another step forward again there isn't a bolt-on MAP solution for the S2. Those that have been available for the Turbo for some time still have fundamental problems. I'm going to stick my neck out and say that I don't believe a MAP solution using the standard 944 EMS is ever going to work, not because it can't but because it doesn't currently exist and there is not enough potential uptake to make it commercially viable to develop now for a 15+ year old model range, especially when replacement with a standalone EMS is always going to be hugely better and they are already available for not too frightening a cost (circa £2k-£3k to do it right, maybe less?) If you imagine a line with AFM at one end and MAP at the other the MAF would be much closer to the MAP end than the AFM end. If this works as well as Thom says (and I don't doubt his review) and it's bolt on for circa £450 then you get maybe 80% of the improvement of MAP for a no-hassle purchase. You won't get 80% of the improvement of a standalone including MAP but you are going to spend less than 25% of the money at worst and trust me (and Rick) standalone EMS on these cars is heartache, hassle, frustration and unexpected £££££.
I'll get you a nice bowl of dandelions ready. It is so much nicer when someone else finds the pitfalls.
I'm just glad that I didn't junk any of my redundant wiring so that I could return to a place which would accept MAF.
MAP does allow the car to run happily if you blow off a boost pipe, it would just be nice if it ran significantly better when the boost pipe is reconnected. [&:]
Do I surmise that, as Paul didn't get a 300 bhp hat, he is now trying for a 400 bhp one? [
]
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Hello Darren.
Thank you for your interest in our MAF-Kit.
We are currently preparing some detailed information in English for our
international customers and will distribute this information in about 2
weeks.
I can tell you so far, that the MAF-Kit is a direct replacement of the AFM
and fits to the original wiring connectors. It is based on an additional
control unit that converts the MAF mass signal to an AFM compatible volume
signal. It is a direct replacement sensor and requires no additional
modifications.
The advantages of this system are a faster signal processing (throttle
response) and less restrictions to the airflow (more torque in the low
range).
The kit supports all modifications that work with the AFM like chips,
exhaust systems, air filter, cam shafts etc.
You will receive the English brochure in week 33.
Regards,
Thomas Voigt
The above is a reply to the e-mail I sent. Didn't reply to my group buy question though.
Anyway, who am I kidding that I can even afford one[&o]
It's only because my head is shaped like a banana that I think I'm one of the bunch!
Here's to week 33 then[]
Thank you for your interest in our MAF-Kit.
We are currently preparing some detailed information in English for our
international customers and will distribute this information in about 2
weeks.
I can tell you so far, that the MAF-Kit is a direct replacement of the AFM
and fits to the original wiring connectors. It is based on an additional
control unit that converts the MAF mass signal to an AFM compatible volume
signal. It is a direct replacement sensor and requires no additional
modifications.
The advantages of this system are a faster signal processing (throttle
response) and less restrictions to the airflow (more torque in the low
range).
The kit supports all modifications that work with the AFM like chips,
exhaust systems, air filter, cam shafts etc.
You will receive the English brochure in week 33.
Regards,
Thomas Voigt
The above is a reply to the e-mail I sent. Didn't reply to my group buy question though.
Anyway, who am I kidding that I can even afford one[&o]
It's only because my head is shaped like a banana that I think I'm one of the bunch!
Here's to week 33 then[
]
TTM
Well-known member
ORIGINAL: flamingeye
TTM, I see in your original post that the torque range is more evenly spread. So does it bite quicker than the magic 4k rpm mark.
Is it a gradual pull or just happens at slightly lower revs?. Either would be quite nice[
It is a gradual pull - acceleration noticeably increases with revs, meaning the flat spots of the original set up are quite less noticeable.
Because low & mid range torque is so noticeably increased as a result to the additionnal swiftness of the engine and the much improved throttle response, I would say the "kick" at 4k happens on a wider rev band (and a bit lower in the rev range too), which actually means it's not quite litterally an "instant" kick anymore.
eastendr
New member
For those interested, I've now uploaded the dyno pulls for John's car 3 days after coming back from Thor Racing.
http://www.cannell.co.uk/DD%20E409BKE%20-%202.htm
AFR curve is even worse than before and power was down 5 BHP / 31 TRQ. Partly due to throwing far too much fuel in ....
http://www.cannell.co.uk/DD%20E409BKE%20-%202.htm
AFR curve is even worse than before and power was down 5 BHP / 31 TRQ. Partly due to throwing far too much fuel in ....
TTM
Well-known member
Drove a couple more 100 miles yesterday, this time in the dry only.
There is definitely an increase of low and mid range torque. It is mostly noticeable in fifth gear as the car does not need switching back to fourth, for example when overtaking at low speeds (~70 mph).
Contrary to what I said in my previous post, there is still the typical S2 instant kick at ~4200 rpm when the throttle is floored in 3rd. This kick is less noticeable in 4th and in 5th - but then on my S2 it had never been as noticeable in 4th and 5th as it always had in 3rd when the original AFM was on.
The engine is also more responsive in 5th above 5000 rpm, although I did not test it to the max speed.
There is definitely an increase of low and mid range torque. It is mostly noticeable in fifth gear as the car does not need switching back to fourth, for example when overtaking at low speeds (~70 mph).
Contrary to what I said in my previous post, there is still the typical S2 instant kick at ~4200 rpm when the throttle is floored in 3rd. This kick is less noticeable in 4th and in 5th - but then on my S2 it had never been as noticeable in 4th and 5th as it always had in 3rd when the original AFM was on.
The engine is also more responsive in 5th above 5000 rpm, although I did not test it to the max speed.
eastendr
New member
Graphs are http://www.cannell.co.uk/DD%20E910XTM.htm
The power is down over 30 bhp to what I expected. After a bit of diagnostics I found that one of the 2 new knock sensors I fitted is suspect.
The DME wont allow proper ignition advance if it detects a problem with the knock control circuits during self-test. The power loss would equate to approx the amount of power the dyno says is missing. A new sensor has arrived today ...
The Blitz chip produces approx 17 BHP more power than standard. but you can see the fuelling curve isn't very good. Hopefully I'll get the knock retard situation sorted in time to do another run at Weltmeister soon.
I'm intigued by the MAF conversion as well so might end up with installing one and then a complete re-map to get things spot on.
The power is down over 30 bhp to what I expected. After a bit of diagnostics I found that one of the 2 new knock sensors I fitted is suspect.
The DME wont allow proper ignition advance if it detects a problem with the knock control circuits during self-test. The power loss would equate to approx the amount of power the dyno says is missing. A new sensor has arrived today ...
The Blitz chip produces approx 17 BHP more power than standard. but you can see the fuelling curve isn't very good. Hopefully I'll get the knock retard situation sorted in time to do another run at Weltmeister soon.
I'm intigued by the MAF conversion as well so might end up with installing one and then a complete re-map to get things spot on.
Is it related to this one http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=135576&highlight=HFM5 or is 2 germans with the same idea? Doh! studied the german page now and yes its the same guy!
Also see here,
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=177030&page=3&pp=15
Tony
Also see here,
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=177030&page=3&pp=15
Tony
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New member
TTM
Well-known member
The website is not running yet but the kits are already available.
FYI the company details (as printed on the bill) are :
SciVision Automotive Engineering GmbH
Hauffstrasse 8
D-71131 Jettingen
Telefon : (+49) 7452 8880-21
Telefax : (+49) 7452 8880-29
E-Mail : info(AT)scivision.ag
Internet : www.scivision.ag
Just be aware the chap does this as a spare time activity and is not making a living out of this, so don't be surprised if you feel like you need to insist with several e-mails before you get a reply.
As far as my kit is concerned I've driven 3000 miles so far and the car flies. Spark plugs suggest the mixture has improved (less grey, more brown).
Hope this helps.
FYI the company details (as printed on the bill) are :
SciVision Automotive Engineering GmbH
Hauffstrasse 8
D-71131 Jettingen
Telefon : (+49) 7452 8880-21
Telefax : (+49) 7452 8880-29
E-Mail : info(AT)scivision.ag
Internet : www.scivision.ag
Just be aware the chap does this as a spare time activity and is not making a living out of this, so don't be surprised if you feel like you need to insist with several e-mails before you get a reply.
As far as my kit is concerned I've driven 3000 miles so far and the car flies. Spark plugs suggest the mixture has improved (less grey, more brown).
Hope this helps.
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