Maintenace /servicing costs?

[GrahamD]

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum and after much deliberation am considering buying a 944.

I am rather anxious about maintenance costs, as I want to use the car daily, approx 12,000 miles per annum. Assuming most of you have your cars in good condition, which is hopefully what I will find, what are your typical annual costs?

Hope the question doesn't cause any offence, thanks in advance for any replies.

Graham

 

[Hairyarse]

Hi Graham and welcome

Of course it wont cause offence, that's what we're here for! []

General opinion is firstly to buy the best car you can (probably stating the obvious!) but with lots of history, that's important. There's still plenty of cars to chose from so don't buy one without. Consensus seems to be to budget £1500 a year which is probably about right as long as you don't have all the big jobs due in one year, i.e. belts, clutch, head gasket. I guess if you're looking at a car with circa 100k miles on it then the belts/rollers should have been done within the last 4 years/40k miles and maybe a clutch too. Some say the water pump should be replaced every time the belts are done but I'm not in that camp.

If you take a look here - http://www.twgporsche.co.uk/servicing/ you can see examples of costs with a specialist. These of course come down if you can do the work yourself. Where in the country are you?

Finally, you have the choice of which 944 to go for.

1. Square dash - the original and feels like a classic car, drives like a go kart
2. 2.7 Lux - not had one of these so can't comment, 16V engines do need revs to keep going but there's a lot of fans of these and plenty about for good money
3. S2 - Very smooth and refined, personally I found it a little dull in the sense it#s deceptively quick, so no complaints on speed! Would make an excellent daily as feels modern, not classic
4. Turbo - my current 944 of choice. Very similar to the S2 but with the kick in the back of the turbo - very nice [8D]

I hope this helps? I'm sure there's someone in your area who can help you, maybe show you their 944. What kind of budget do you have to spend?

Regards
Andy

EDIT: PS: Forgot to say, don't forget to check out the buyers guides on here!

 

[GrahamD]

Hi Andy,

Thanks for the quick reply and the link, they even have a 944 for sale, but not sure about a convertible.

The thought of the turbo is great, nevous about if they brake, as assume the turbo itself somewhat expensive, but how how dependable are they?

I am in South Wales.

Graham

 

[spyro_x]

Graham - as Andy said make sure to check out the buyers guide area. If you're handy with a set of spanners then there are many great resources out there for doing a lot of the work yourself (http://www.clarks-garage.com/ is a great one).

I think the general consensus on buying a 944 is, again as Andy said, go for the best you can but go for one which is bodywork wise in good condition as generally its easier to repair/deal with mechanical/electrical issues than badly rotted sills etc.

I have an S2 and while I've never driven the Turbo and thus experienced this fabled 'boooooost' that everyone talks about, I love mine and even after close to 200K miles it's still got lots left to give (as seen by others on here with many more miles under the belt).

Good luck with your choice and welcome to what in my experience is one of the best forums going, everyone here is passionate about these cars!

 

[Hairyarse]

Unless you have a turbo with lots of tuning done (which could still prove reliable) then any 944 if well maintained and used should be pretty trouble free. It's an old car so things crop up but from experience generally minor tweaks. A lot of people on here use their 944's as daily drivers. Jeremy (Fat Albert user name) recently used his turbo daily clocking up a mammoth amount of miles. Spyro makes a good point, get one with good body work as sills are a common rot spot but history must come hand in hand with this.

I guess your budget and how handy you are with spanners will be the driving factor behind which one you buy. Have you driven any yet?

 

[GrahamD]

Hi Andy

Only driven a 911 so far, gave me a big smile from performance, acceleration, cornering and especially the brakes...wow, but couldn't justify the price for performance I could never use.

So no, yet to drive a 944, but didn't want to try it, like it and then start deliberating. Planning now so I proceed with confidence.

Graham

 

[edh]

They are solid well built cars so are generally straightforward to work on, but they are 20+ years old. Parts availability is generally very good.

If you can do your own simple maintenance & fettling it will work out much cheaper - clarks garage is a big help, and the factory workshop manuals are useful.

The other thing to consider is whether you have a local porsche specialist - depending on your own level of competence they may be very useful people..

 

[Copperman05]

If your doing 12,000 miles year would suggest the S2 is more suitable as a daily driver, ultimately it will spend less time at the specialist and makes a better all round car. Having said that, the turbo comes close but I suspect it suits better as a weekend car to hoon about in. Both are great cars and I'm sure youd be happy with either.

Can I suggest you meet some of us with our cars so you know what to look for and what you like...


Edd

 

[Pastry]

2. 2.7 Lux - not had one of these so can't comment, 16V engines do need revs to keep going but there's a lot of fans of these and plenty about for good money

just to be pedantic, the 2.7 is a late 8v engine, the 944S is a 16v engine, but 2.5l.

also the vanilla 2.5 lux is split in to early square dash and late oval dash versions.

ive had my lux for almost 4 years now and the major jobs have been belts (twice) and a replacement gearbox. its cost about the same as a 5yo golf to keep running.

its not hugely quick by todays standards but handles nicely and is better put together than anything modern ive driven.

 

[Hairyarse]

ORIGINAL: Pastry

2. 2.7 Lux - not had one of these so can't comment, 16V engines do need revs to keep going but there's a lot of fans of these and plenty about for good money

just to be pedantic, the 2.7 is a late 8v engine, the 944S is a 16v engine, but 2.5l.

Good point, had a feeling I had got that one mixed up [] LOL

 

[GrahamD]

Thanks for all your comments, greatly appreciated. Perhaps I should slow down so I can see some of the cars as Edd suggests.

Would a non Porsche owner be welcome at one of your meetings?

 

[Copperman05]

Yes you would be more than welcome, we dont have many specific 944 meets but your local region will have a monthly meet and may have some 944's that go along. Alternatively you could find someone from the forum near(ish) you, most of us are willing to help prospective buyers as much as we can. There is also the Rutland meet usually in the new year which many of us go to and is the first event of the year for us.


Edd

 

[Lowtimer]

Graham

Whereabouts in the country are you? There is probably someone here within easy reach of you...

What I'd add to all the above is that it is easy to forget that the youngest 944 is 21 years old and the oldest is 30 years old. In addition to maintenance and servicing costs as you may think of them in relation to a modern-ish daily driver, sooner or later you will be thinking in terms of restoration costs. Especially for something you are going to keep outdoors. You don't say what your car background is, but if you have reasonable experience of running cars of this age as daily drivers then there's nothing particularly scary about a 944, in fact they are pretty tough and practical cars. However, if are used to running, say, 'conventional' old used cars in th 8-10 year old bracket, you will have to expect to put in a fair but more anticipatory renewal of things, i.e. actively searching out things that are worn, perished, cracked, tired or corroded and replacing them (ideally) before they cause a problem. Once that's done, and a 944 has been thoroughly gone-through, then it should be every bit as reliable as a much newer car.

There is nothing inherently unreliable about Turbos: the 8v single-cam is engine is far simpler than the 16v twin-cams of the S and S2, and the turbo stuff is all pretty straightforward. All of the cars suffer from calendar-related aging of rubber and plastic components: hoses and pipework do not last forever, and a Turbo with air leaks is not a happy Turbo. It's actually age-related stuff, as much as mileage / usage related stuff, that you have to watch.

 

[GrahamD]

Hi Lowtimer, thanks for your comments, I live in South Wales, if there is anyone local (ish).

I am no mechanic, but am not afraid to get my hands dirty, just want to know how to put it back together before I take anything apart!

Subject to a bit of serious DIY I could change one of our outbuildings into a garage, if the benefits to the car are sufficiently worthwhile.

Car history, nothing exciting, current car is over 12 years old, and is clearly on it's way out after 153K miles and facing an uneconomical engine rebuild / replacement. Hence thoughts turned back to long held dream of a 944, and whilst I would not want to rebuild any engine it would seem more appropriate to do so for a car I would actually like.

Restoration would scare the pants off me, hence why I was anticipating buying the best possible condition and hope for at least a few years of happy motoring.

Graham

 

[zcacogp]

Graham,

There is some good advice on here, but broadly a 944 can make an excellent daily driver. I run mine as such (it's my only car) and at one stage I was doing 15k miles a year in it. My client base has changed a bit since then so the annual mileage is now lower, but the car handled it with aplomb. It has never broken down on me in 6 years and about 60,000 miles of ownership.

As has been said, the key is preventative maintenance - being aware of the car and what condition the various bits are in, and seeing to small jobs before they become big ones. I do all the work on my car myself, and this means that I am spending a couple of hours on it, lightly tinkering, every month. (I see this as a pleasure, others may see it as a chore!) This saves a LOT of money as I don't pay for labour. The alternative would be to make friends with your local independent Porsche specialist and take it there often. It will cost a bit but shouldn't cost a fortune.

The figure of £1500 a year on maintenance sounds about right, if you are paying for labour. (Some people compare the cost of running a 944 with the depreciation on a newer car. On that basis, a 944 will cost about the same to run as a modern ford focus, but be a massively much more entertaining car to own. However this metric is only relevant if a new focus would be something else you would consider, which is isn't for many!) Buying a good car in the first place will keep the bills down for a while, but finding a genuinely good car may take a while. FWIW, I keep the list of costs on my car up to date here:

http://www.pistonheads.com/members/showServiceHistory.asp?carId=35695

... so have a look and do ask if you have any questions.

Finding someone local who can talk you through 944 ownership is a good idea. I can't remember whether there are any forum members local to South Wales ... if you are ever in London then you would be welcome to look at my S2, but that may be a bit far for you to come!


Oli.

 

[GrahamD]

Hi Oli

Thanks for the reassuring comments. Your blog with the costs actualy makes good reading for someone in my position.

The more I read the more obvious it is becoming how little I know. I've found someone who owns a 944 locally, so next stop....

Sad truth is that I can see myself buying a mundane interim run around in order that I can attend a meeting or two and learn about the models much better, so that I find a quality model and not rush into a bad purchase.

Graham

 

[Frenchy]

As an everyday i would go for an S2, They seem to be cheaper to source than the Turbo models, if looked sorted and looked after they are bomb proof and well screwed together, parts are readily available and some are surprisingly cheap, they do not have to cost a fortune to run.
Meet some owners and get a run out in a few if possible, buy the best you can, they do rust. It is worth getting someone who knows the model to look at cars with you as a bad one (and there are plenty) will put you off them for good.
A good one on the other hand will put a silly grin on your face everytime you get in it[]
Fire away on here for further advice.

 

[zcacogp]

Graham,

Glad it was helpful!

As has been said, the different models may look similar but hide very different characters. Andy (hairyarse!) has outlined the differences between them pretty well, so choose whatever floats your boat. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, and spending some time with the different models, and some owners, will tell you all you need to know. In fact, a good read on here will be pretty informative!

The advice of not rushing into ownership is very good. If you are very stuck without a car and want transport then buying a runaround while you make your mind up is a wise choice. It's easy to buy a bad 944, and you could regret it for some time to come! (I hasten to add that it's also fairly easy to buy a good one, if you know what you are looking at!)


Oli.

 

[Paul 290T]

Graham,

My experience is not directly applicable, because my car covers so few miles, but here's a summary:

1968 turbo, over 19 years, 2 owners and 25k miles the average annual cost for all repairs and routine servicing and consumable (eg tyres and brake pads etc) is £1.250. The car currently has 74k miles on the clock and has in my opinion been maintained to a high standard. I don't carry out much work on the car myself (space, time, equipment and to a fair extent capability limitations).

If i covered more miles I don't think the annual running cost would increase by more than a couple of hundred pounds. Most of the work has been age related deterioration.

Knowing what i know about these cars, my advice to you is to go for it. Running costs are a little higher than a boring modern car, but there's no depreciation or comparison in terms of style, performance and character for the total ownership cost.

 

[Sandspider]

Graham, I'm in Bristol and you're welcome to have a look at my car if you're passing this way. I have a 1986 2.5 Lux as my only car / daily driver, though I only do about 7,000 miles a year. Had it for 4 years now, and never regretted it! It's only let me down twice. Once when I'd just got it and I went through some deep water and the engine conked out. The HT leads were knackered, and sparking to the block - I replaced them, and it's been fine ever since. The other time was when the pin retaining the handbrake on the rear right wheel sheared off, and locked the handbrake on as I was driving. (My fault for ignoring the slight grating noise, or thinking it was a wheel bearing!) Oh, and once I locked my keys in it []

Cost wise, I do basic work and servicing myself, on my driveway. It's not too hard, I'm fairly mechanically competent, and I use a couple of local garages for bits I don't want to tackle myself like the belts. So, over the 4 years I've had it, it's had two sets of belts (doesn't need another set for 2 - 3 years now, cost around £600 each time), one water pump (cost about £200 if done at the same time as the belts) and a new set of brake discs & pads (can't remember exactly what this cost, not horrendous). (Plus a few minor bits - sills waxoyling which I didn't have the kit (or the will!) to do myself, replacing a few bits of fuel line...). I could spend more on it to get it really tip top, but it's my everyday driver so the paintwork is going to have the odd stone chip, the odd car park dent etc. I do find it appreciates a bit of tinkering, though it's not really essential. (My hatch pins need adjustment, my brake pad wear sensor light is on, but I know it's the sensor not the brake pads so no hurry there - it's perfectly usable in the meantime). I use mine regularly (once a week or so) and that's better for them than standing around.

I did look at a number of cars before buying this one (about 10 over a year if I remember right) and that is very much worth doing - there's a good range of car quality out there.

4 years ago I was in the same position as you. I'm very glad I bought a 944. Now I'm thinking of upgrading mine to a different model of 944! Every drive is an experience...