Looks like the values of S2's has increased?
- Thread starter j4mou
- Start date
pauljmcnulty
Active member
When I bought VJ, nearly 9 years ago now, there was a 20K miles baltic S2 going for about £15K I think. It was featured in 911PW or one of the mags. Good S2s were nearer the £10k mark back then, so not a massive difference.
The trouble now is how many S2s are there with low miles and immaculate (not just tidy) original condition? As it's really only a collector's car, used for concourse events and rarely driven, it's a very rare S2 and therefore possibly worth the extra to someone. You can do a lot to improve an average S2 with that budget, but very few are under 100K miles now. To be honest you'd spent that amount on most of them if you wanted that standard, and still not have the low-mileage car.
As a collector's car though, I'd put my money in to a low-mileage original turbo, not S2, as a long-term prospect. There are certainly still cars around with £15K-plus insurance values, as you would be so hard-pushed to replace something with 50K miles or less, let alone in as-new condition.
The concourse scene is a complete mystery to me, I want to drive the thing not polish it, but it's where the big money is for exceptional cars.
The trouble now is how many S2s are there with low miles and immaculate (not just tidy) original condition? As it's really only a collector's car, used for concourse events and rarely driven, it's a very rare S2 and therefore possibly worth the extra to someone. You can do a lot to improve an average S2 with that budget, but very few are under 100K miles now. To be honest you'd spent that amount on most of them if you wanted that standard, and still not have the low-mileage car.
As a collector's car though, I'd put my money in to a low-mileage original turbo, not S2, as a long-term prospect. There are certainly still cars around with £15K-plus insurance values, as you would be so hard-pushed to replace something with 50K miles or less, let alone in as-new condition.
The concourse scene is a complete mystery to me, I want to drive the thing not polish it, but it's where the big money is for exceptional cars.
andy watson
Moderator
For another £5k you can get yourself a 1991 Turbo with only 21000 miles from Paul Stephens
But as good as these cars are would it worth all that money to keep stored?
But as good as these cars are would it worth all that money to keep stored?
ORIGINAL: j4mou
Ok it's in good condition, but really?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1990-PORSCHE-944-S2-MANUAL-2-DOOR-COUPE-/221139552704?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item337cf1c9c0
They know their cars, but it still seems a high price, mines the same year, less owners, same history but more miles.
it a big Dealership ..they have to sell that high to cover overheads !!
DavidL
Active member
What about this. Could it be Sc0ttys old car?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EXCEPTIONAL-1992-PORSCHE-944-3-0-16-V-S2-COUPE-RHD-FINAL-EDT-LAST-BEST-/221141681711?_trksid=p2047675.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D555001%26algo%3DPW.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D29%26meid%3D2897936751927014043%26pid%3D100009%26prg%3D1013%26rk%3D4%26sd%3D281004673912%26
and its there as well!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EXCEPTIONAL-1992-PORSCHE-944-3-0-16-V-S2-COUPE-RHD-FINAL-EDT-LAST-BEST-/221141681711?_trksid=p2047675.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D555001%26algo%3DPW.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D29%26meid%3D2897936751927014043%26pid%3D100009%26prg%3D1013%26rk%3D4%26sd%3D281004673912%26
and its there as well!
andy watson
Moderator
Not Sc0tty's old car he didn't have leather
The expensive blue S2 is at the new Ferrari main dealership in Swindon - we had a visit there a few weeks ago with R31. If you're ever in Swindon with a couple of hours to spare it's worth popping in to drool over their stock (new and used) - more 458s than you can shake a stick at, a 250 SWB, a 275 california - some serously expensive cars! Some interesting non-Ferrari stuff as well - Mclaren MP4 12c, Merc SLS, GT3 4.0, Astons, etc and a couple of very nice historic racing cars (Chervon B8 and a Lola). The 944 is a nice car with known history - but I'd say it's at least £5K too much - but I'm sure someone will get swept away with the showroom and hospitality and cough up the asking price (after all, it is the cheepest car there!)
Mick
Mick
Copperman05
New member
I had someone ask me the other day if I was selling my car, all be it he knew not much about 944's but loved mine and wondered if I would want £10,000 or so for it, I declined obviously[&:]. But goes to show with the right buyer, buying a great example he might get lucky once the price is negotiated a little.
Edd
Edd
Indi9xx
New member
You guys crack me up at times! []
You are all so fast to run down the values of your own cars. I wonder if this is just a Porsche 944 phenomenon or if it is something found in any other classic models?
The fact is, there is a massive void between a well sorted tidy 944 and a scrapper, in between the two there are many shades of grey.
Lets talk S2's
A scrapper is only worth about £500. That is a car, typically where it will cost more to bring it up to scratch than it could ever be worth, typically missing the expensive maintenance things for years, has several (not necisarilly terminal) and probably needs a complete respray and bodywork with corrosion taking hold in a big way.
Then at the top of the market, you have a car a bit like the Dick Lovett car, which I think should be valued somewhere between £10,000 and £12,000 from a dealer where you can shout merry hell and get things fixed by them if it is nothing less than perfect.
Between these two there are several shades of grey, with a lot of S2's selling for £3000, £4000 and a few sorted ones selling for around £5000 and £6000. I would be tempted to say it costs a lot more than £2k to bring a £4k one up the standard of a £6k car.
In the meantime, I think there are a lot of cars being sold which should be £3k cars being sold for £5k and probably a lot of cars which should be £6k being sold for £4k.
When you see one which is a bit of a museum piece being sold for £12k, don't knock it, rejoice that the 944 is moving into the bracket where a Ferrari main dealer is happy to have one on the forecourt and people are happy to pay for a good one.
I think more 944's have sold above £10k in the last couple of years, during a recession, than probably sold above £10k in the previous 5 years.. there is a trend and your cars are coming of age.
]You are all so fast to run down the values of your own cars. I wonder if this is just a Porsche 944 phenomenon or if it is something found in any other classic models?
The fact is, there is a massive void between a well sorted tidy 944 and a scrapper, in between the two there are many shades of grey.
Lets talk S2's
A scrapper is only worth about £500. That is a car, typically where it will cost more to bring it up to scratch than it could ever be worth, typically missing the expensive maintenance things for years, has several (not necisarilly terminal) and probably needs a complete respray and bodywork with corrosion taking hold in a big way.
Then at the top of the market, you have a car a bit like the Dick Lovett car, which I think should be valued somewhere between £10,000 and £12,000 from a dealer where you can shout merry hell and get things fixed by them if it is nothing less than perfect.
Between these two there are several shades of grey, with a lot of S2's selling for £3000, £4000 and a few sorted ones selling for around £5000 and £6000. I would be tempted to say it costs a lot more than £2k to bring a £4k one up the standard of a £6k car.
In the meantime, I think there are a lot of cars being sold which should be £3k cars being sold for £5k and probably a lot of cars which should be £6k being sold for £4k.
When you see one which is a bit of a museum piece being sold for £12k, don't knock it, rejoice that the 944 is moving into the bracket where a Ferrari main dealer is happy to have one on the forecourt and people are happy to pay for a good one.
I think more 944's have sold above £10k in the last couple of years, during a recession, than probably sold above £10k in the previous 5 years.. there is a trend and your cars are coming of age.
Suffolk944
Moderator
Oh the irony when he won a prize in a concourse competition in the "modified cars" section !
In regards to prices I do think there is a slightly perverse tendency amongst us 944 types to almost wear the undervaluing of our cars by the market as a badge if honour of sorts. Times do seem to be a changing slightly at least at the top end of the market and not just for S2's. There also seems to be a shift upward on the asking prices of the best conditioned 924's too. I do think that as the market for the Frontrunner cars becomes more "specialist" rather than the "cheap Porsche " sector that early Boxsters now fill, prices for good examples of our cars will firm up a tad.
andy watson
Moderator
Oh yes, he was parked alongside me at P&P and won because he had clear side repeaters!!! and of course mine is not original and I did I get anything..............
Now I'm not bitter
Now I'm not bitter
Now I'm not bitter
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Some common sense from Jon Mitchell....there must be lots of "cheap" 944s for which the scrapper beckons, and on the other hand there will always be a good market for cars that are properly looked after. This was discussed somewhere else on the Forum recently, so I checked my outgoings and keeping my car in reasonable nick costs about £1100 p.a.
I see from "how many left.com" that last year's total of 750 S2s is down to 670 this year...unless that rate of attrition levels off, the cars will have become a lot rarer after another 5 years, won't they?
So, two thoughts on the Dick Lovett car (looks nice doesn't it?!)...Firstly, the annual costs ought to be less than I'm spending, and secondly, just stop and think about how little that sort of money would buy you if looked at something else: a Boxster? (no thanks): an MX5? (my sister in law has one): an Alfa of some sort? (noooo!)
The only problem with low mileage cars will always be that if they're driven and enjoyed the mileage creeps up.....
I see from "how many left.com" that last year's total of 750 S2s is down to 670 this year...unless that rate of attrition levels off, the cars will have become a lot rarer after another 5 years, won't they?
So, two thoughts on the Dick Lovett car (looks nice doesn't it?!)...Firstly, the annual costs ought to be less than I'm spending, and secondly, just stop and think about how little that sort of money would buy you if looked at something else: a Boxster? (no thanks): an MX5? (my sister in law has one): an Alfa of some sort? (noooo!)
The only problem with low mileage cars will always be that if they're driven and enjoyed the mileage creeps up.....
Indi9xx
New member
Now that's what I suspect, for some reason there seems to be a bit of a forelock tugging peasent talking to the lord attitude by 944 owners, "No me lord, tiz just a 944" while not really accepting the real honest truth, which is the 944 is a GREAT car, as are many other Porsche models.
I think this goes back to the days when there was so much "its just an Audi", or "Isnt that the one with the VW van engine?" or "Poor mans Porsche" bull from either other Porsche models or the general public over the years.
But if you look back at new prices, it never deserved any of the "Poor mans Porsche" talk in the 80's that it got, especially when you think that a new 944 was often about 50% of a house price back in the day, whereas a new Boxster isnt even a beach hut in Bournemouth when new... As for the audi engine, not a lot in common between the VW Van, AMC Gremlin or even the ditched prototype VW, to the 924 engine, whereas we all know the 944 engine has nothing VW/Audi about it, or much else of the car in reality.
My opinion. You guys all need to be proud of what you have and if its a good one, don't let it sell cheap.. it will sell for reasonable money, as they do every week. If anything, you will probably sell it easier at a price that reflects the condition of the car. If its a minter with really low miles, advertise it for approaching the Dick Lovett price with a discount for private sale... If its average, sell it for £5k, if its a rough one then it could be anywhere from £500 to £3k.. Just my thoughts.
The two I have sold, if they had 75k or less on the clock I would have advertised them for £8k to £9k, for 35k miles I would say £10+ is about right and who is to say Dick Lovetts will not have a margin for negotiation in that price.
The Boxster 2.5 is now the cheap Porsche, and will become more so... who would of thought it just 4 or more years ago.. Oh yeah..... Me.. And I am going to say I told you so [
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Indi9xx
New member
I also think the 944 Turbo prices will really go bonkers in years to come... Who knows when, could be a decade away, but it will happen.
I remember thinking a few years ago it was crazy that you could buy a good 924 Carrera GT for £13k from a dealer... and madness that you could get a GTS for £20k... Now a good Carrera GT is more like £25k and a GTS can be £75k to £100k, and I do think they will go higher.
Just 3 or 4 years ago a 1980's 911 Turbo was a £12k to £20k car... Now they are £39k to £60k.. again they will rise further.
And the comment about the amount still on the road declining.. thats still happening quickly and will keep on going... Would be nice to see how many were on the road 5 years ago and 10 years ago.. All those bits on ebay come from somewhere.
I remember thinking a few years ago it was crazy that you could buy a good 924 Carrera GT for £13k from a dealer... and madness that you could get a GTS for £20k... Now a good Carrera GT is more like £25k and a GTS can be £75k to £100k, and I do think they will go higher.
Just 3 or 4 years ago a 1980's 911 Turbo was a £12k to £20k car... Now they are £39k to £60k.. again they will rise further.
And the comment about the amount still on the road declining.. thats still happening quickly and will keep on going... Would be nice to see how many were on the road 5 years ago and 10 years ago.. All those bits on ebay come from somewhere.
Chrishazle
Active member
Not just the 2.5 - I saw a lovely 987 2.7 manual on Sunday, Guards Red with leather, satnav etc - under £10k and I'd guess room for negotiation on that price (it's at the same dealer in Buckingham that has my old 968 tip coupe!). It's us FE guys that have the less common Porsches these days, Boxsters are two a penny but ours are becoming rarer by the day - and the province of discerning owners.
Chrishazle
Active member
John, I think if you go to the DVLA database files instead of the howmanyleft site you can pull out the numbers for at least 5 years, maybe more. It's a bit of a pain, especially as the files are for all makes and models, and different files for taxed and SORN'd.
In this months Practical Classics and Mechanics magazine, the price guide vales of the S2 and Turbo have both had their prices raised across the 3 conditions. All the rest of the 924/944/968 range stayed the same. The guide is pretty good in my opinion so clearly there is omething happening. I have also not had any turbo cars to break for a year now so take from that what you may,
Alasdair
Alasdair
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