Lethargic starting! A 944 characteristic?

[nick3814]

I don't now about you lads but all the 944s I've had all seem to start really slowly, the S2 especially (suppose 'cos its a bigger engine) is there anything you can do to prevent this or help it if you see what I mean?
My 911 is a 3.0litre and spins up really fast and fires straight away, the 944 can sound quite embarrasing sometimes until it fires.

Any ideas

 

[pauljmcnulty]

My 911 is a 3.0litre and spins up really fast and fires straight away, the 944 can sound quite embarrasing sometimes until it fires.

Any ideas

S2s are notoriously slow, remember it's a 3.0 4-pot, not a 6. What are the compression ratios on the 2 engines? [8|]

 

[944 man]

Ive never had one turn over quickly. My old series one track car is lethargic at best; but its better than my 968CS was when virtually new..... I had a 250 with an oversized battery that was almost keen, but thats as good as it gets.

 

[DavidL]

They aren't great but I did find that a 78amp/hr battery (Bosch silver works for me) and a recon starter and solenoid does make a lot of difference.

 

[Diver944]

A battery in tip top condition, fresh earth straps (especially at the battery and at the starter) and a rebuilt starter will help but even with everything new they crank a couple of times before they really get going. There was a theory a while back that the S2 had a delay built into the dme to allow for oil pressure to build before firing.

My Turbo that has the same block as an S2, cranks much faster than my S2 [&:]

 

[poprock]

My Turbo started beautifully, really quickly "¦ until a flooding of the engine forced me to replace the starter motor. Now, with a new starter, it's as slow turning over as any other 944. D'oh!

 

[TTM]

ORIGINAL: Diver944
My Turbo that has the same block as an S2, cranks much faster than my S2 [&:]

Probably because it's got twice as less valve springs to deal with?

Now wondering if a 944S cranks as slowly as an S2... [8|]

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: TTM
Now wondering if a 944S cranks as slowly as an S2... [8|]

In my huge experience of seeing S's start (namely, one car, once), it sounded just like an S2, and was every bit as slow.

My S2 become a lot more enthusiastic when I fitted a new alternator. I think it's general deterioration of the systems that causes it; no one thing. New alternator, battery, starter, recently serviced, good connections everywhere and I think you'd wonder what the fuss was about.


Oli.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Anyone know the compression ratio of the 8 and 16V cars off the top of their head?

 

[zcacogp]

http://www.clarks-garage.com/tech.htm

Lux: 10.6:1 (10.2:1 on late ones.)
S and S2: 10.9:1
All turbos: 8.0:1


Oli.

 

[peanut]

My first 90 S2 did turn over slowly but started within 3-4 turns however my current 89 S2 spins the engine over extremly fast. It is twice as fast as the other S2.
I noticed soon after purchase that a previous owner had renewed all the earth straps to the entire car from battery to starter and chassis and engine.

You don't have to have a slow turnover ,it is possible to speed things up dramatically if you are prepared to go the same route

 

[Pastry]

My Lux is a little slow, about 2-4 turns. Being used to small engines and a modern diesel it almost spooked me, but as it hasn't hesitated longer than that so far (despite infrequent use and miserably damp weather 90% of the time) I'm happy to live with it.

 

[Alexw]

I'm not sure if this is true but i recall reading somewhere that the crank had to be spinning at a certain speed before the injectors will fire? Can anyone confirm/deny this? My S2 takes a few cranks to start, sounds really bad at times too. I left it charging over night and it started brilliantly first time! So i can recommend a smart charger!

 

[peanut]

ORIGINAL: Alexw

I'm not sure if this is true but i recall reading somewhere that the crank had to be spinning at a certain speed before the injectors will fire? Can anyone confirm/deny this? My S2 takes a few cranks to start, sounds really bad at times too. I left it charging over night and it started brilliantly first time! So i can recommend a smart charger!

The S2's all sound bad when spinning over. They use the tiny pre-engaged starters which hardly look big enough for the job. Mine sounds like a bucket of nails , bolts and marbles in a cement mixer []

 

[nick3814]

I think I might try renewing a few earth straps at some point but can live with it at the moment, its just they look so flippin smart and yet sound awful when turning over, even my mother said yesterday when I left hers "Oo is there something wromg with your car?" Cheeky begger, but then she does drive an MX5 so what does she know [][]

 

[cococola]

My Lux is slowish on turn over and I just put it down to the starter motor.

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: nick3814

I think I might try renewing a few earth straps at some point but can live with it at the moment, its just they look so flippin smart and yet sound awful when turning over, even my mother said yesterday when I left hers "Oo is there something wromg with your car?" Cheeky begger, but then she does drive an MX5 so what does she know [][]

I decliend to buy the first S2 I looked at when I was hunting for one because it started so badly. And of course I didn't believe the sellers' comment that "They all do that"!

Shame. I think (in hindsight) it was probably a very good car. Ho hum.


Oli.

 

[Neil Haughey]

Tried just about all the suggestion over the years as my S2 has had so many different bits on it over the years. The 2 things that really have made a difference are as follows:
1) Sandpaper clean the cable ends that connect onto the starter, this was my worst earthing point problem.
2) Have the car sat on a battery conditioner at night (Accumate).

Actually the 2nd point seems to make the biggest difference. My 968 has gone flat now because the boot light was left on for 2 days but it was getting slower and slower to turn recently. I don't know why but in day to day short distance driving these cars really struggle to get charged up enough. However a few weeks back I had the 968 in the garage and every morning it span into life very keenly (spins slow but fires up much quicker then S2, don't know why).

 

[mr brightside]

I work as an electrical engineer and i've been considering your problem all day. Any points of high resistance in the starter supply circuit will obviously cause excess drain on the battery but the increased voltage drop will also starve the coil primary winding reducing the strength of your spark so you're dealing with a double edged sword. The good news is any improvements you make will have twice the effect.

The most likely point of high resistance would be the starter solenoid contacts, originally they'll have been coated with a pitting resistant alloy but it wears off and the copper beneath just frazzles. Someone suggested earlier you fit a recon starter and this is the best idea really.

The crimped connections on the 16mm2 live wire to the starter and the earth straps are also a problem area, moisture corrodes the terminals and also capillary action draws it back up the conductor and damages the strands. Someone suggested rubbing the crimped ends with sandpaper which is a good idea but coat all the connections in contact grease before reconnecting. Alternatively take all the heavy current conductors to an electrical wholesalers and ask them to make up some new ones; ring around first they don't all offer the service, hydraulic crimpers will ideally be needed to make off the crimped ends. Don't forget to coat the ends in contact grease though or the problem may slowly reappear as corrosion sets in.

 

[mr brightside]

On the other hand my 924s sounds like it's crying for mercy when i turn it over also, terribly disconcerting in the supermarket carpark you understand..."oh cripes Hugh what's that ghastly racket?"..."gosh Hattie it's that yuppie fellow in his porsche he can't afford to have repaired, i do tire of his sort".