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Kw-v3 - second impressions

Copperman05

New member
The car has been back from Promax for a couple of days now since having the Kw-v3 suspension fitted, therefore I thought I would give some feedback on my first impressions for those who may be considering going down a similar route.

The reason for the upgrade was deterioration of 22yr old stock suspension to MOT failure level. As car is a keeper and suspension upgrade a once in a ownership decision I wanted to get it right first time. I wanted a unit that was as future proof as possible, able to cater for future track days but also extended continental road trips too. After glowing reviews here, other forums, feedback from several porsche specialists and current users I decided the kw-v3 was the most suitable option for my needs.

Fitting wasn't completely without issues, the rear beam to body bush bolt was seized and had to be cut free, front control arm was knocking and replaced by s/h unit (free of charge, thanks promax), also some fuel lines were broken and had to be re-fabricated. The only bush replaced was the one listed above, all others including the original top mounts were deemed serviceable by Promax. Looking at cars history alot of the bushes were replaced in 2005 by PO which would explain why few needed replacing. Re-indexing carried out as not enough travel on existing adjustments to get required ride height (promax sent pics of car with kw fitted without re-indexing but there was still too much a gap above rear wheels). Also fitted were 968 castor mounts + full geo completed.

I have to say the ride height is now pretty much spot on with wheel arches just above top of tyres, no issues with speed bumps so far.

img0050ng.jpg

On 16" 993 wheels, semi matt by Lepsons, 18mm spacers needed for rear and on order. (sorry about crummy iphone pic)



I know any suspension replacement is going to feel much better after 22 years but the kw-v3 do feel very different from the stock units. Set at the Kw recommended factory settings by Promax the result is a pronounced improvement (as one would expect). Using harder than stock spring rates the ride at slower speeds is more bumpy, you feel most of the small bumps and small changes in road surface (a good thing), this is to be expected in a sports suspension upgrade, the trade for comfort over road holding though is a welcome one as this is where the kw really excel.

Body roll during cornering is reduced, not non existent, but much reduced. I know body roll is largely controlled by ARB's but the kw have made a noticeable difference here, this makes for a much more confidence inspiring drive. Also largely gone are forward pitching and rear squatting after heavy breaking and acceleration.

Where I thought the kw's also excelled was at higher speeds on major roads, being much more compliant than stock over bumps and dips at speed on our motorways and dual carriageways, the car never felt unsettled or twitchy but very planted and keeping all wheels well balanced on the road. The kw appear to offer road holding characteristics of a fairly firm suspension setup but with comfort/compliant levels of a more soft/stock setup, at least for high speed bumps, this I imagine being down to there well known valve system.

With our current winter conditions I haven't been able to test the kw's as much as I would like as pushing the car in these conditions is asking for trouble. So far though I'm very impressed with them. At factory settings the ride is harder at slower speeds but its never too much and I'm willing to put up with that for the return it gives in better cornering and road compliance.

Not a cheap upgrade by any means but definitely the best one I've done to the car so far, with the ability to change settings for more comfort or better performance on track the setup has the ability to cater for most future driving needs.

For now the car feels like it has a new lease of life and I'm looking forward to summer already...[:)]


Edd
 
Interesting Edd. Mine is off for exactly this to Promax in a couple of weeks. Was the reindexing a large chunk of the bill? I'm not planning on doing this but we shall see. Any chance you could post the pic they sent before reindexing? Where did you source the castor mounts? Good to hear you like it on your limited use so far - I'll await further updates.
 
David, Andy generally has the castor mounts in stock, or they are freely available at any OPC. You can't actually get the original 944 castor mounts any more: all OPC replacements have been the improved 968 one for some time. Edd, Thanks for the description: this is all good reference for those who may follow. I think it probably confirms that for my own purposes I was better off doing what I did, which was have new factory suspension (comfy-bum variant, not M030) when I had mine rebuilt. Mine is as firm at low speeds as I would want it given the state of a lot of the lanes I have to use and my general aversion to things rattling and chattering. But the quality of the KWv3 at high speed seems to be consistently praised.
 
Looks great - miss mine [&o] Glad its working for you. As said so many times, pushing on in a high performance car with 25 year old unaltered suspension is not ideal. Mo30 is old technology these days. The Golf is brilliant fun but I miss a useable hobby car and cant find anything thats fits my bill and wallet so am becoming more and more inclined to scratch an itch with a top notch 944T later this year and KW would certainly help seal the deal.
 
ORIGINAL: Lowtimer David, Andy generally has the castor mounts in stock, or they are freely available at any OPC. You can't actually get the original 944 castor mounts any more: all OPC replacements have been the improved 968 one for some time. Edd, Thanks for the description: this is all good reference for those who may follow.  I think it probably confirms that for my own purposes I was better off doing what I did, which was have new factory suspension (comfy-bum variant, not M030) when I had mine rebuilt. Mine is as firm at low speeds as I would want it given the state of a lot of the lanes I have to use and my general aversion to things rattling and chattering.  But the quality of the KWv3 at high speed seems to be consistently praised.
True, but don't forget the kw can be adjusted to be pretty much as compliant as stock, although granted it may be over kill for your purposes.
 
You can ease off the dampers, certainly, but you are stuck with the high spring rates. However, I remain open-minded and at least I now know what a car on proper fresh standard suspension feels like, which is something not many people have experienced in the last decade or so. Swap you a ride if and when we coincide on some event or other...
 
Good to hear your feedback Edd. After 2yrs on my KW-v3 I would broadly agree with your comments. I find my car is at its best when being driven enthusiastically. For example, a nice country road at a relaxed pace can sometimes feel a bit too stiff. However by picking up the pace little-by-little the car feels more and more compliant, filtering out any unsettling high frequency disturbances. I've driven other cars with similar rates that can feel like they are shaping-up to throw you into a ditch at short notice. The bypass valving also seems noticeable on expansion joints, ruts and poorly surfaced race tracks. I've done over 5k in Europe and find the car to be comfortable for long motorway stints. The polyamide spring caps and seats seem to do a good job of keeping noise levels low. In terms of adjusting the damping - In my experience I'm finding a fairly narrow sweet-spot for both road and track damping settings (within just over 1 turn). The car didn't respond well to backing the damping off too much.
 
Do you people who had to reindex the torsion bars also replaced the bushings on the rear axle while it was dropped? I can't help thinking replacing them should make a good improvement on high mileage cars.
 
Every car is different, but I chose not to in my case. I'm not sure of the exact age of my spring plates (think they came off a '90 turbo) but after a clean-up and re-plate I couldn't find any sign of significant wear. The bonding was fully in-tact and they took some significant force to clamp back together again. A new set from an OPC are around £500 and I really didn't fancy any of the aftermarket squeak, bind'n'vibrate alternatives...
 
The rubber bushings for the spring plates are available separately from Lindsey in the US, reducing the costs for all required bushings to ~700€...
 
The rubber bushings for the spring plates are available separately from Lindsey in the US
I have to say I don't understand how these types of aftermarket bushings work. How do you go about bonding the rubber to the spring plates in your garage?
 
These must be Elephant racing ones I guess? Jonny I think the point is that you don't bond them, didn't someone say before that they were not bonded on the old bettle suspension? Personally I would rather just stomach the cost for new spring plates, may well have to stump up for em this year myself, not looking forward to that.
 
If you don’t have a perfect bond then the rubber will wear out rapidly, in a similar manner to the stuff on the end of a pencil. Polyurethane bushes use a lubricant and are designed for sliding contact (hence the 'binding and a squeekin' risk). All modern (genuine) automotive rubber bushings are designed to work by deforming/twisting and are therefore almost friction-free. The aftermarket rubber kits I have seen (Lindsey, Elephant etc.) rely on a type of glorified super glue. I'd love to be proved wrong, but I just can see them lasting more than a few thousand miles, max. Having tried to remove factory bonded spring plates, I’m almost 100% sure Porsche specified something a little more robust (hence the £500 price tag). The forces these things are under in operation is huge, and therefore demand a special chemical bonding process.
 
For front castor bushings - 968 variety, but from the post above looks like the same for 944 - try Hartech or K300, somewhat cheaper than OPC I believe!
 
Edd, My 944t came with KWv3. This suspension is now approx four years old and still superb so I reckon you'll be happy with the choice for years. To begin with I found the settings at low speed a bit of a tooth rattler especially on speed rumble strips, but that could be affected by having 17" wheels. At faster speeds I was impressed with the controllability, even on bumpy Welsh B roads. So I left promax's settings alone and just experimented with tyre pressures. 36psi had the suspension kicking the car around too much on rough roads. I settled on 32 when cold for fun drives and higher for long motorway stretches. For the track I followed helpful advice from this forum and set it lower aiming for it to stabilize around 32 when hot. The promax height setting on my car is very low. I would recommend checking if you can fit your standard jack under the car. I need to drive a wheel onto a piece of plank to get enough height. Fell out of my chair laughing when I saw footage of the presidential limo get hung up in Dublin. I can relate to that and hope my undercar radar is better. Regarding your fuel lines comment: I need some repairs so am interested in your feedback on how they were re-fabricated. What was used and how did they join it. Porsche metal pipes? Braided flexi fuel hose and jubilee clips? Apologies for going off topic, so please reply to my ‘fuel pipe fixes’ post or PM if you get a chance. Cheers, Simon
 
Thanks Ed - You're helping to encourage me to get mine back on the road, I have a a set of KW's sitting on the shelf at RPM awaiting the arrival of my car, and your account has made me quite envious (in a good way, honest!)
 
Ok for those of you considering kw-v3 in the future I thought I would update my findings with the setup after 6 weeks of ownership. The kw-v3 kit is an upgrade with fair cost, I wont call it expensive because for what you get it isnt but its certainly not cheap either. So what do you get for your £2500? Well what you get is a modern suspension and handling upgrade for your 944, and its quite an upgrade. I found that the stock units after 22 years were soft at the front of the car and hard at the rear, not sure if this is a common thing with older 944's but its certainly what mine were like. Pushing on I did find that the front would roll away from me and you could tell you were at the limit of what the suspension was capable of handling, the suspension definitely being the limiting factor of how fast you could take corners, etc. I also found that over large pot holes the stock units would slam and bang quite loudly, loosing traction and unsettling the car. What impresses me with the kwv3's is how they minimise body roll in corners, they behave like a much firmer setup mid corner allowing for increased confidence and faster speeds. However, when that large pot hole looms up they are much more compliant, even than stock, bumping over the hole in a much more controlled manner and never upsetting the balance of the car. Yes small bumps at slow speeds are more pronounced but never feel too much for a sportscar, I would even say it actually handles large bumps at slow speeds better than stock, something I found could be crashy. On fast A roads and dual carriageways/motorways the kw's are VERY composed, steering inputs are precise (possibly down to 968 castor mounts fitted) and high speed stability is significantly better. Another area that I am impressed with is how the kw's appear to provide much better drive mid corner, yes there is more grip from less squatting during acceleration, but this also translates to increased grip coming out of corners, it almost like having an LSD fitted, I'm not sure where the power was going with the stock units but the kw's are definitely putting more of it down during cornering. So who are kw's for? I'd say for anyone who loves driving and wants to upgrade their drivers car into something even more special then the kw's offer something that will enhance the driving experience considerably and inspire more confidence at speed. Perhaps a must for anyone with a (significantly) modified turbo, or is thinking of doing track days or the Nurburgring and the like. Who is it not for? Someone who's priority is ride comfort over performance, those where the car is not a keeper. Its not a cheap investment but if you can stretch that far the rewards are great and the system provides great flexibility for whatever you have in store for the car in the future. Edd
 

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