Just speculating....
- Thread starter MRGT
- Start date
Peter Empson
PCGB Member
As others have stated it's definately possible, whether it makes sound financial sense is another matter [
] I know there's not much extra power on paper, but I think you'd also want the S2 gearbox, better brakes as well as all the other odds and ends (exhaust, loom and so on). Otherwise it's a pretty straight forward, if time consuming job, the only small 'issue' is that the airbox will not fit under the badge panel, but that's quite easy to solve).
If you were doing the work yourself and could pick up a crashed S2 cheaply then it'd be a great project, but if you're paying labour then with the current prices of S2's I think it's probably not the best way to spend your cash. Don't forget that it'll be more expensive/difficult to insure the modified car compared to a standard S2, even if they're otherwise identical...
] I know there's not much extra power on paper, but I think you'd also want the S2 gearbox, better brakes as well as all the other odds and ends (exhaust, loom and so on). Otherwise it's a pretty straight forward, if time consuming job, the only small 'issue' is that the airbox will not fit under the badge panel, but that's quite easy to solve). If you were doing the work yourself and could pick up a crashed S2 cheaply then it'd be a great project, but if you're paying labour then with the current prices of S2's I think it's probably not the best way to spend your cash. Don't forget that it'll be more expensive/difficult to insure the modified car compared to a standard S2, even if they're otherwise identical...
If you are thinking about it the engine from my S2 was pretty sound according to the garage! Unfortunately the insurance company secreted the car away before I could blink, so I dont have it, but I believe that it ended up in a breakers somewhere in cambridge. Panther black 1989 S2.
944 man
Active member
Before theyve settled??? I though that this dishonest practice had long since stopped.
In the distant past I was aware of a lightly damaged car which was taken and sold by an insurers before the owner had even been made an offer! Because the car ended up with a friend of mine, I know how much it was sold for: and this was more than they offered the owner in settlement!
If they havent settled, or at least agreed a price, then you still own the car ffs.
In the distant past I was aware of a lightly damaged car which was taken and sold by an insurers before the owner had even been made an offer! Because the car ended up with a friend of mine, I know how much it was sold for: and this was more than they offered the owner in settlement!
If they havent settled, or at least agreed a price, then you still own the car ffs.
Yeah, that was what I thought!
As it turns out though they offered me £100 more than I had paid for the car a few weeks earlier (though I had since replaced the belts which were overdue). Given that the damage from the accident revealed that the drivers side cill was virtually rusted through (something I obviously hadnt checked out well enough [&:] ) I thought I would forget about it!
As it turns out though they offered me £100 more than I had paid for the car a few weeks earlier (though I had since replaced the belts which were overdue). Given that the damage from the accident revealed that the drivers side cill was virtually rusted through (something I obviously hadnt checked out well enough [&:] ) I thought I would forget about it!
MRGT
New member
The reason I was asking is that I was having a chat with my Indy about possibly rebuilding my 'S' in an effort to recover the lost ponies and he felt it was not worth the expense and would be better off fitting the 3.0 ltr. He indicated that it was a pretty straight forward job simply requiring an engine, DME and AFM along with modification to the airbox due to the differeances at the front end between S2's and S's. He felt that the gearbox/drivetrain would be fine ( I seem to remember reading some time ago that the S gearbox was strengthened compared to the standard lux)
I love my S and know that it is a good one (engine aside [
] ) , with none of the common faults we often see throughout the model range. I suspect finding an S2 in similar condition would not be easy, and would almost certainly cost a lot more than the sale of my S would achieve even allowing for the cost of fitting the 3 ltr (besides, if I go for another engine SWMBO 'probably' wouldnt notice [] )LS1 is a nice idea but a little out of my price range !
Peter Empson
PCGB Member
By all accounts a top end refresh should solve most of the power loss seen on a higher mileage 944S, so unless you have other issues then this will surely be a much cheaper option than even buying a decent S2 engine, let alone the labour for fitting it. Plus these engines do seem to respond to some mods, for example Rick found a reasonable amount of the missing power on his even without a top end rebuild.
Also, it's worth remember that most donor S2 engines you're likely to buy will be in the 100k+ region so problems could be encountered and some inspection and remedial work is going to be far more cost effective when it's out of the car. So budget for some seals and maybe the head gasket too (I skipped this, and had to do it a short while afterwards, which was something of a false economy...). Don't forget the belts/tensioners/water pump. Then it would be madness to fit it in without changing the clutch... It's all these little bits you don't think of that really add up on a job like this.
I believe the 944S gearbox is stronger, and I haven't managed to destroy one yet, where as I have something of a history with original 'lux' gearboxes [] However the S2 engine has a lot more low down torque, so I'm not sure how it would cope in the long run, and I'm not sure how the ratio's compare (too knackered to look them up now, we had a thread about this a while back). The torque tube will be fine to leave as original, mine's still going strong. S2 gearboxes are pretty cheap and they're very quick to fit, so I really wouldn't skimp on a few hundred here if you're doing the rest.
If your mechanic is keen to do the swap then why not ask him if he can come up with a fixed price for the job, despite promising quotes mine came in at a fair amount more (I'm not daft enough to admit the amount here []), but I think the minimum you should expect (assuming £40-£50 per hour labour) will be about £4k ish including engine/parts. I would be suspicious if it was substantially less.
I really can't help thinking you'll only be happy in the long term when the car is 'completed' with better suspension and brakes (and wider tyres/wheels, although most people already have those I guess), assuming your 944S is anything like mine (i.e. 100k with tired suspension).
Despite the above I'm still not trying to put you off, if you're tempted then go for it! Just try to make sure you have your eyes open to all the potential pitfalls. I still love my car and don't regret one second or one pound of the work thats gone into it, but it certainly hasn't been the easiest way to get to where I am, but it has probably been the most fun.
Also, it's worth remember that most donor S2 engines you're likely to buy will be in the 100k+ region so problems could be encountered and some inspection and remedial work is going to be far more cost effective when it's out of the car. So budget for some seals and maybe the head gasket too (I skipped this, and had to do it a short while afterwards, which was something of a false economy...). Don't forget the belts/tensioners/water pump. Then it would be madness to fit it in without changing the clutch... It's all these little bits you don't think of that really add up on a job like this.
I believe the 944S gearbox is stronger, and I haven't managed to destroy one yet, where as I have something of a history with original 'lux' gearboxes [
] However the S2 engine has a lot more low down torque, so I'm not sure how it would cope in the long run, and I'm not sure how the ratio's compare (too knackered to look them up now, we had a thread about this a while back). The torque tube will be fine to leave as original, mine's still going strong. S2 gearboxes are pretty cheap and they're very quick to fit, so I really wouldn't skimp on a few hundred here if you're doing the rest.If your mechanic is keen to do the swap then why not ask him if he can come up with a fixed price for the job, despite promising quotes mine came in at a fair amount more (I'm not daft enough to admit the amount here [
]), but I think the minimum you should expect (assuming £40-£50 per hour labour) will be about £4k ish including engine/parts. I would be suspicious if it was substantially less. I really can't help thinking you'll only be happy in the long term when the car is 'completed' with better suspension and brakes (and wider tyres/wheels, although most people already have those I guess), assuming your 944S is anything like mine (i.e. 100k with tired suspension).
Despite the above I'm still not trying to put you off, if you're tempted then go for it! Just try to make sure you have your eyes open to all the potential pitfalls. I still love my car and don't regret one second or one pound of the work thats gone into it, but it certainly hasn't been the easiest way to get to where I am, but it has probably been the most fun.
Peter Empson
PCGB Member
I do agree with Simon to some extent in that the calipers are probably sufficient for road use with more power, but the standard pads will turn to mush if you're a heavy braker, so as a minimum it'd be wise to upgrade those.
There is another benefit with them in that the feel is better than I've ever had with the larger brembo calipers, which tend to have a less direct feel, especially on initial bite.
I upgraded mine mainly as I had to use an aggressive pad to get the performance I wanted which destroyed discs quickly (a couple of fronts a year, mixed road and track use), so it almost made economic sense to fit the larger brakes. Now, even using the same brand of pads I get much better braking and do not wear out the discs in the same manner. I do miss the pedal feel however.
There is another benefit with them in that the feel is better than I've ever had with the larger brembo calipers, which tend to have a less direct feel, especially on initial bite.
I upgraded mine mainly as I had to use an aggressive pad to get the performance I wanted which destroyed discs quickly (a couple of fronts a year, mixed road and track use), so it almost made economic sense to fit the larger brakes. Now, even using the same brand of pads I get much better braking and do not wear out the discs in the same manner. I do miss the pedal feel however.
David Hooper
New member
PH Sports at Shardlow have an S2 in red done 124k that is MOT'd which they are selling, or breaking, for a customer who is about, or has already gone, to France.
A mate of mine, who wants a 944, and myself went to look at it on Saturday. Wants a bit of TLC but fired up first prod. Everything works and it runs fine. Its in red.
Seems the guy wants £1500 for it. Paul at PH said the guy had always looked after it mechanically but the paint needs a buff, usual red problem, and some sill work.
Breaks my heart to see it broken up but the parts will make £1500.
Make a good project for someone.
Cheers
Dave
A mate of mine, who wants a 944, and myself went to look at it on Saturday. Wants a bit of TLC but fired up first prod. Everything works and it runs fine. Its in red.
Seems the guy wants £1500 for it. Paul at PH said the guy had always looked after it mechanically but the paint needs a buff, usual red problem, and some sill work.
Breaks my heart to see it broken up but the parts will make £1500.
Make a good project for someone.
Cheers
Dave
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