Intercoolers
- Thread starter PhilKent
- Start date
PSH
PCGB Member
The thing is, it's not a question of how much BHP it adds to a standard engine, it's keeping that charged air cooled enough on a modified engine which matters most. More power adds more heat, add too much power and you're going to get heat soak and thus sap lot's of protential power with possible damage... The standard intercooler despite what some claim can handle a lot more power as proven on Rick's charts. When you go into the 'highly-modified' realm though, it's wise to have cooler charged air to be safe and get the most from the engine. Remember it's not just power, it's wider power band, quicker spool, faster responce..etc etc
blade7
Well-known member
PSH said:
The RS 500 Cosworth intercooler was way bigger than a standard Cosworth intercooler. Even the 4x4 Cos intercooler was bigger, I know that because I fitted one. IMO the only way to improve the standard size 944 turbo intercooler is to spray it with water, or duct it out through the bonnet, like the 968 RS.
PSH
PCGB Member
You should see the size of the intercooler on my son's cossie, in fact, IIRC he has more than one fitted...
The flow charts show that the mods done to the 944 intercoolers do work, if you really want a big intercooler for a 951, go the SFR route, you may have to sacrifice the pop-up lights though?
The flow charts show that the mods done to the 944 intercoolers do work, if you really want a big intercooler for a 951, go the SFR route, you may have to sacrifice the pop-up lights though?
Dan944t
New member
i changed mine to the XX9 series uprated intercooler, and a few other XX9 upgrades like there larger capacity injectors ect, but don’t know exactly who makes them but mine were bought from John Mitchel at JMG . seems that all the upgraded options that fit into our cars with a little modification needed in order for the larger end tank to fit are or must be all the same ? as there’s not much more room in there for a fit into that space under the front pannel, unless you was to make it or get it made a custom item. it’s a shame i didn’t do any dyno before and after, but allot like Pete i’ve done tones of power mods all in one go so could never warrant what made what power gain, i’m really only missing a few items myself to turn the car into a real beast ,.. but these few things always equates up to another £6-£10,000 it seems ??
i believe the upgraded XX9 intercooler should be more than comfortable to handle the 400 +that i’d like after the larger turbo ect, seeing as Petes is doing so well on his standard intercooler ??
i believe the upgraded XX9 intercooler should be more than comfortable to handle the 400 +that i’d like after the larger turbo ect, seeing as Petes is doing so well on his standard intercooler ??
PSH
PCGB Member
The thing is, it's not just about having a bigger intercooler and it's flow. It's also about how it matches the entire setup, is it matched to the turbo's efficiency, and how well is it fed air. IIRC the ducting on the 951 is far superior to your average 'Ford 'BOLT on the biggest flat rad to face the air', approach... the 951 has a ram scope that draws the air in. It's the whole design which is of most importance, I'm not sure on the physics of the 951 intercooler position, I do recall reading something about the effect from the entry opening and it's ducting, perhaps someone knows more?
Pete
Pete
PSH
PCGB Member
mine isn't standard now Dan, it's a stage 1, I recall noting a comment by Jon re the standard intercooler... IIRC he said that they can deal with up to 400bhp which would go along with my own experience. I'm thinking of fitting two temp sensors into the system, one before and one after to see what we have. I'm sure if I ask my son he'll take a look at this, hell I might even get him to fabricate a water injection system, he really does love playing around with modifying cars, he's mentioned doing this in the past...I don't know where he gets it from?...
Dan944t
New member
PSH said:mine isn't standard now Dan, it's a stage 1, I recall noting a comment by Jon re the standard intercooler... IIRC he said that they can deal with up to 400bhp which would go along with my own experience. I'm thinking of fitting two temp sensors into the system, one before and one after to see what we have. I'm sure if I ask my son he'll take a look at this, hell I might even get him to fabricate a water injection system, he really does love playing around with modifying cars, he's mentioned doing this in the past...I don't know where he gets it from?...
ah sorry Pete, my bad, i thought you said yours was still standar.
on the way on the train in picking my car up from John in dorset , i remember reading one of his articles i think ?? could be wrong could be someone else’s but i’m pretty sure it was on his blog site,....and it listed every mod or part of the engine that you would have to change at a certain bhp level to procceed any further as the engine is obviously gonna get strangled at different stages of its power regarding fuel and air ect ect ... and if i’m not mistaken , i’ll have to find it and report back but i thought it was out of puff at the 320 mark? it lists the stabdard turbo being out of puff at somethong like 290 for the 220 cars ...something like that anyway. i’ll have to try finding it again. very interesting. this is really what made me start to change things like the injectors, intercooler, wastegate ,fuel pump ect ect ect ect. my main issue for power now is my turbo is too small for what i’ve built myself, words of wayne ...and his correct , i had so much going on engine build wise and with my cylinders having to get bored out and custom rods ect being made for me that i totally forgot the 1 vital ingredient to my power, and just rebuilt the turbo like a right fool!!
only saving grace of all the work to get that turbo out is i have all the 3” stainless pipes here ready to make my own custom exhuast system front to back, so will have it all apart and make my downpipe up to suit my new turbo anyway. only thing i’d like to start a thread on one day soon is should i change my downpipe size ?? i remember reading hearing that its the only bit that doesn’t need enlarging becuase of the pulses would be wrong? wayne’s words of that sort anyway as he said my exhuast system and my turbo are restricting big power gains.
i’ll be on it one of these days ??
Funny I was reading the very article the other day - it tends to come up a lot when searching for specific information on Google []
Part 1 - http://www.jmgporsche.co....ningthe944turbopartone
Part 2 - http://www.jmgporsche.co.uk/index.php/menu-articles/articles-performance/item/178-tuningthe944turboparttwo
]Part 1 - http://www.jmgporsche.co....ningthe944turbopartone
Part 2 - http://www.jmgporsche.co.uk/index.php/menu-articles/articles-performance/item/178-tuningthe944turboparttwo
Dan944t
New member
it’s funny as when i picked up my car from John after £6000 + in power mods & this was before the big engine build few tears back with more on power mods.,,,,,,the car was seriously rapid fast! so much john said what have have i done to it as it’s the fasted one his ever had with the stage of mods, just ported it a bit ?? and after reading this article i phoned john and said if this is not in the high 300,s why is it that my mates fairly new m3 can’t touch me, i just pull away from him? and he said it’s got sh@t loads of torque! and that was only on 18-19 boost !
i do believe every car and there state of tune ect will always be individual dispute what many believe just becuase you have the same is amount of parts as they do. it cost me quite a bit ( Pete knows ) just in labour for john to tune my AFM and wastegate to perform at its optimum and this was all done withought a dyno on the open road with multiple runs ,....it was a real weapon ,.... then i had to do major sergery and it’s still in the project process with more mods ontop of those days...
just never seems to end!!!
i do believe every car and there state of tune ect will always be individual dispute what many believe just becuase you have the same is amount of parts as they do. it cost me quite a bit ( Pete knows ) just in labour for john to tune my AFM and wastegate to perform at its optimum and this was all done withought a dyno on the open road with multiple runs ,....it was a real weapon ,.... then i had to do major sergery and it’s still in the project process with more mods ontop of those days...
just never seems to end!!!
PSH
PCGB Member
A hint, it's to do with intercoolers...Dan944t said:
BTW. I did a little reading on our cars and the ram effect from the ducting installed...the 951 is seen as a very good example in this area, IIRC one point was it could be up to 50% more efficient than just an intercooler with no ducting, for example such as that on my son's Cossie, I must tell him..
Porsche knew what they were doing when designing these cars. Just look at the under body trays with their ribs to guide airflow and the rear diffuser. The purposely placed low pressure area where the intercooler ducting mouth is situated and why a vented nose panel is bad news, all very sophisticated and often over looked in the overall package.
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