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Right, this 5h1t can stop right here me thinks [:mad:]! Jon, i'm sorry it has taken me so long to respond to your post but i was away on a course yesterday getting my very small brain fried! When i got home at 7pm, all i wanted to do was have a large G+T and collapse! I understand you have been in hospital lately and so i wish you a speedy, full recovery if you haven't already. As you are aware, i always like to deal with you direct as you are the company owner and i like your straight,honest and no bull5h1t way of doing business and getting the message across to me (explaining things in detail).
The main reason that i got so irate is that, in my opinion, your business takes a dive every time you are not there. What i mean by this is the fact that your office staff(the young lads that you employ) NEVER return my telephone calls when they say they are going to, leaving me to phone JMG yet again and again! And Secondly, they never know what state of repair my car is in, nor does anyone EVER keep me informed of any progress made. If i treated my customers like that i wouldn't have a business left. On reflection, i think i am getting totaly dissillusioned and fed up with this whole 944 experience and i am now very seriously considering putting the car up for sale. As i have stated before Jon, you aren't exactly round the corner to me but, i liked your set up as soon as i saw it and you gained a certain level of trust from me. So therefore, i really don't mind bringing the car on a two hundred mile round trip for you to look after it. I am starting to waffle on here, i can feel it so, i'll keep it brief. For the record mate, there is no "Fire", it's just your Paranoia [8|]. Jamie DID NOT re-estimate! That was the first i knew about it in your post above. I am no mechanic but, i can remember having work done to the Gearbox Seals last time. You put Swepco in the Gearbox (which is expensive as we all know). Now the Gearbox has to come out it will have to be done again! Do you see the points i am trying to make here Jon? Look mate, please take this as an instruction (albeit a very public one) to do whatever it is that need's doing to the Gearbox so i can get the car back home and up for sale. I've had enough. Thank you Jon. Kind regards.
Pete [:)].
 
I really do not know why we were tarred with somehow being confused or ripping off a customer, all we did was spot a problem, estimate the best solution, revise that quote in the light that part of it has recently been done and was not going to be necessary and then get burned alive for it.
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Jon, that's just not true; no-one here, out of the 15000 or so forum members, understands what was being quoted for! I think everyone reading this thread will just put it down to something not being communicated right between the OP and your office, not accuse you of ripping anybody off. [:)]

While there are so many different options talking about input or output seals, and it was plain no-one really knew what all the quotes and estimates were for, no-one's tarring you with anything. There's a lesson here in not estimating without all the facts, perhaps, but no-one's been accusing you of getting it wrong; we're just all confused about what needs fixing. In fact I was having a moan at the indy who looks after mine, as their fixed-price quotes are rubbish!

Going back to the "other" club, and trying to stoke up divisions, isn't kelping anyone. Most posters here are regulars on both forums, and being honest most aren't members of EITHER club and owe no-one any loyalty. A large number of the long-termers, the paying members, are in both Clubs.

You know full well that this forum tries to avoid advertising, so it's understandable that specialists prefer the "other" forum where they can get a free plug for their businesses in return for their time advising members. I think that's fair, hence your profile allows people to see that your posts are pretty plainly from an independant Porsche specialist, so our rule is flexible! I'd love to see more input from specialists, and whilst that shouldn't turn in to a bun-fight if they get something wrong (usually a misunderstanding, not actually an error), traders don't have special rights to be treated as right all the time; like any other poster you can be challenged.

We also don't allow "name and shame" threads, which the "other" forum does. That's because it's always the same; there's a story behind the original complaint that comes out only after the initial few posts. This thread is a great example of where it might have been better for the OP to deal with it on the phone, rather than on the forum, although to be fair he says his calls weren't returned. I would probably have closed the thread if asked, but you came on it explaining it very well, and asking for input on the estimating proceedure, so it seems fair enough that you have your right to reply, clear up any misunderstanding, and move the discussion on.

You might remember a while ago, when a well-known indie had problems. Rather than allowing people to shout about poor service on the forums, we talked to them, explained what the situation was (it was awful for the whole business), and avoided any postings on it whilst the company were getting back on their feet. I'm not sure that a forum that allows uncontrolled "praise and shame" threads would have been able to do that. Perhaps they would, but I think this forum is generally run pretty well, so it's a shame to get moaned at on the "other" side!

No forum is perfect, and we'd always like to be told how we can improve it, but one thing would be more specialist input from people like yourself. [:)]
 
I don't ever set much store by estimates to be honest. Although I might ask "roughly how much" to get a feel for major jobs.

if I can't (or can't be bothered to) do it myself, I leave it with simon at ph. They do the work and then I pay the bill. An estimate wouldn't change anything. If the work needs doing there's usually very little option. I trust them to bill me honestly, having used them for 10 years or so. They don't always get everything right, but no one does. We're all human.

Same approach goes for the garage I use for my other cars.

I appreciate there are lots of garages where this probably approach wouldn't work, but long term business relationships built on trust are the best.
 
I'm an occasional tipec reader and of course I post a bit on here. I've always been amused by how similar the forums end up with the same core group of people on both. All I have to say is Pete please don't sell the 944, come along to Rutland instead (I drove up from Brighton last time, it's not a bad drive) and Jon, please keep posting on both forums. A lot of the 944 heartache comes from trying to make them perfect, and if it's not a DIY labour of love for yourself that means ££££. A weeping gearbox input seal is not going to destroy the known universe, I would keep an eye on the oil level and postpone until the CV joints or clutch needs doing. Just IMHO!
 
For the record, i am a fully paid up member of both PCGB and TIPEC. However, i will not be renewing my membership to either club.
 
I take it the problem still has not been resolved? How long has the car been at the garage now, I thought it was months ago you decided to take it there and have the 'works' done?
 
No Bob, the problem still exists as far as i know. JMG haven't informed me otherwise. As far as i know, Jon is on holiday skiing so, assuming he is back this weekend i'd expect him to get in touch next week. The car has been at Jon's Garage since early November but to be fair, this Small leak to the Gearbox has only just reared it's head again the week before last. The car has been at Jon's having lots of other bits and pieces done since November, not least, having an APEXI AVC-R Electronic Boost Controller fitted and set up. This has been a pain so i understand as Bournemouth has had heavy rain and floods for quite a while and the roads have not been dry enough to take the car out and set it up properly. This i understand as you can't really set them up properly on a rolling road. Still, i hope to have it back soon. Then i can make up my mind as to whether i sell him or not. [:)]
 
I'm back, not so much skiing, more learning to ski, not learning to stop or turn and so ploughing into snow drifts at high speed [:D]

With Pete's car, I just got peeved at us telling him it was the input oil seal, him saying here it was the input shaft seal, and loads of people telling him on here that it should be a 5 min job.. I don't think there was any malice intended, but some of the comments of referring to my company as somehow dishonest really did get my goat.

My thread on the other forum was to highlight that sometimes giving a little advice can cause a whole load of trouble. In the case of this thread, some people telling someone a job should take no time can result in one customer going ape.

Pete's car came down in November, one of the jobs was installing a Apexi boost controller. Unfortunately the previous owner of the boost controller that put it on ebay and pete bought, had damaged its main loom connector beyond repair.. The UK retailers and distributors said the loom was not available, we tried to match it up with just about every electrical connector supplier we could find in the world and failed.. Eventually, following lots of promised replacement looms from various sources and a lot of arm twisting, Apexi in the USA sent us the correct replacement loom. Which was installed as soon as it turned up.

The only other problems we had once the Apexi was installed was getting a fine day to set the controller up on the road, which could be done on the dyno, but really needs setting up on the road to make sure does not overboost... Once this was done, a final check of the car found a leaking transmission input shaft seal on the transmission.. Which is when this thread started.

The work on the transmission has been underway while I have been away, and hopefully when I am back in work on Monday I will find it is all done.

I don't have any problem with Pete, however this thread has highlighted how a price from a specialist, can turn into crossed wires on a forum and a lot of people pricing up a different job, pete blowing a fuse (understandably) and his comments sending my blood pressure off the chart and resulting in my post and others since.

With regard to my comment on the other forum about this forum sending me potty, there is a good reason why I reside mostly in the tipec forum.

In the TIPEC forum I give advice, I help people out, there are no complications.

However, in the past in the PCGB forum, I have in the past tried to do the same, however I will not go into any naming and shaming, but there are a handful of members here that make it not worthwhile for me to contribute, have told some untruths and generally make it more hassle than it is worth to be too involved, which is a real shame.

Why do I still come in here?

Well, if someone posts something in here about me or my business, I come in and either put the record straight, PM them or just monitor them... On other occasions I have come in because members here have told me of someone here's misfortune, so I have popped in to offer support... other than that, for now I stay away.

For me, offering advice on forums is something I enjoy, it nowhere near generates business which makes it a financial proposition as some people may suspect, we make more money out of servicing Boxsters, Cayennes and 99X's than we do out of anything 944 based, it is the way the market is.. You guys know I prefer the older kit, so take it from me, if a forum is not a nice place to be and I don't feel like I am helping anyone, I'm not going to be around.. and yes, the attitudes of some in here, and some of the lies told has in the past sent me potty.



 
A well worded post Jon and hopefully you will feel appreciated by mst of the members and users on this forum.

I hope that the issue regarding this 944 is resolved and everyone realises that sometimes comments on forums can be taken out of context or misunderstood?

I for one value any advice given on here or on TIPEC by yourself or other people with more knowledge than me [:)]
 
For me, offering advice on forums is something I enjoy, it nowhere near generates business which makes it a financial proposition as some people may suspect, we make more money out of servicing Boxsters, Cayennes and 99X's than we do out of anything 944 based, it is the way the market is.. You guys know I prefer the older kit, so take it from me, if a forum is not a nice place to be and I don't feel like I am helping anyone, I'm not going to be around.. and yes, the attitudes of some in here, and some of the lies told has in the past sent me potty.
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Thanks for the reply. You might be surprised to learn that running a forum can also be a thankless task, particularly when the systems go down and you are left dealing with, perhaps, 30 or 40 people a day who have email issues! [&o] Please accept my thanks for the input all you traders give to the forum, it's a basic part of why a forum is useful to it's members IMO.

I think the whole problem we have here is down to our rules regarding advertising on the forum. Fair enough that the original plan was to have an ad-free area when the Club has so many other ways to sponsor it. Tipec's forum advertising rules has managed far better than we have through staying smaller. Of course, natural selection means that if everyone flocks to Tipec they lose that valuable difference, and would need to rethink their costs and liabilities. We also have some "elder" members who are averse to any online developments, and that does stop us developing things as fast as we want to.

I'd love to see traders able to have their own status here. Perhaps advertising needs to be charged for, but there should be a free entry level where specialists are able to post with their company name and reputation backing up their advice. Of course that means them being challenged when they get it wrong, but I have to put up with that so it's not the end of the world!

I've considered 944 ownership many times over the last couple of years, as I'm sure you have thought about stopping working on them in the same way that JZM have. Two things to think about here. We need to understand that specialists need to be paid modern rates to work on our cars, and perhaps that the indies need to keep supporting the forums in order to keep in with the potential owners of the newer cars they are moving on to?

Another thought for indies who are moving away from 944s. Boxsters, Cayennes and 996s are already at sub-£10K values, so they are also going to be as difficult to justify service costs on as 944s, but possibly with less enthusiastic owners? Just a thought. [:)]
 
Lets not live in the past, things have moved on I believe and it appears that some of those of whom you speak no longer post here either. Jon, I am sure that for every person that may have said a negative or bad word you will find 10 here that say the opposite. Being exposed on the interweb such as you are must mean that on occasion not all will go as hoped/planned. Just look at Chris from Center Gravity on PH, the guy seems to be doing such a good job and has numerous satisfied customers yet people trash his work and belittle his success when they haven't even used or met the guy. If he read and saw the posts about him he would be equally horrified yet he chooses not to.

Seeing that you do choose to post on our forums (and you are very welcome too) then I think the odd misunderstanding or hicup is going to be inevitable at times. Please do not let this particular or past incidents put you off posting here, now or in the future, we are all part of the 944/Porsche family, we need to stick together and your knowledge on our cars makes you a valuable asset.[:)]


Edd
 
Hi Jon, glad you're back safe and in one piece! I think you must of been a writer in your previous life or, are deemed to be one in the next! [:D]. Well, iv'e completely forgotten all about our altercation before you went away and, have moved well on! I have a lot of respect for you and your set up andreally don't mind the distance traveled for you to look after my car. My only piece of advice to you would be to have a chat with the lads and get them to sort out the communication problem which still seems to exist. Other than that, i have always boxed in your corner Jon when anyone has slagged off your firm/workmanship,you'll know that if you care to check through my past post's. Being a small business owner, i know only too well what unfounded, negative comments can do to a company. I am more than pleased with the service and workmanship i get from JMG. In fact, i am "over the moon" with everything JMG has done for me and, i want our's to be a long lasting relationship [:D]. An official Porsche Centre not a million miles from here sort or fobbed me off once before you were recommended to me saying "you may be better off trying an independant garage Sir"! WTF!!! Also, comically, there is an "Independant" not to far from where i live that has an immaculate, pristine little unit on a farmyard that never knew what a 944 Turbo was!! They got it confused with "aint that the vw porsche convertible mate? I think you mean a 914 not a 944)!! Cretins!! That's what i'm up against around here so, If your not going to look after it mate, i may as well sell him, and not rejoin the clubs when my membership expires. Oh, and iv'e been offered 7k for him this week on the strength that the chap knew that all the work had been carried out by JMG! I said i'd contact him on Wednesday with an answer. I hasten to add that i'm not overjoyed at the thought of selling him. So there you are mate/everyone I hope this mishap/fcuk up can finally be laid to rest [;)]. One last thing, if i do keep the car, and i really want to, i am going to organise an Annual Brighton Meet, where we all meet up at Clacketts Lane Services or wherever, cruise/hammer down to Brighton, park up on Madeira Drive and, make full use of my mate Brians Cafe, all on the house of course. And it WILL be a SUNNY DAY!!![:D]
 

ORIGINAL: Ex Skyline
. One last thing, if i do keep the car, and i really want to, i am going to organise an Annual Brighton Meet, where we all meet up at Clacketts Lane Services or wherever, cruise/hammer down to Brighton, park up on Madeira Drive and, make full use of my mate Brians Cafe, all on the house of course. And it WILL be a SUNNY DAY!!![:D]
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Right then Pete, best you don't sell and let us have the date [:D][:D][:D]
 

ORIGINAL: Ex Skyline

make full use of my mate Brians Cafe, all on the house of course. And it WILL be a SUNNY DAY!!![:D]
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Best part of the thread so far, and for this reason we need to make sure Pete stays on board [:D]
 

ORIGINAL: andy watson


ORIGINAL: Ex Skyline
. One last thing, if i do keep the car, and i really want to, i am going to organise an Annual Brighton Meet, where we all meet up at Clacketts Lane Services or wherever, cruise/hammer down to Brighton, park up on Madeira Drive and, make full use of my mate Brians Cafe, all on the house of course. And it WILL be a SUNNY DAY!!![:D]
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Right then Pete, best you don't sell and let us have the date [:D][:D][:D]
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indeed...and book the sun! [8D]
 
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