davidcross
New member
Just out of interest, how close to the iconic 2.7RS will 964RS's get to do the experts think???
How future classic??!
- Thread starter davidcross
- Start date
The, so called, 'iconic' stature of the original 2.7RS is more to do with its place in Porsche history - its necessity at the time, homologation in frontline motorsport, the development programme, the inovation, the racing and rallying successes. It was recognised, from launch, as a remarkable road and race car and quickly sold out, genuinely becoming an instant classic.
The subsequent RS variants have a strong following amongst enthusiasts and values of the 964s and 993s have risen, and 996RSs may start to follow. But, IMO they don't share the same historical significance as the '73 cars, and never will.
Which, of all the various RSs, is the best is another question - probably the latest 997RS - but that doesn't mean that history will remember it as it does the 2.7RS. And, even the 2.7RS will always be slightly in the shadow of the 2.8RSR.
The subsequent RS variants have a strong following amongst enthusiasts and values of the 964s and 993s have risen, and 996RSs may start to follow. But, IMO they don't share the same historical significance as the '73 cars, and never will.
Which, of all the various RSs, is the best is another question - probably the latest 997RS - but that doesn't mean that history will remember it as it does the 2.7RS. And, even the 2.7RS will always be slightly in the shadow of the 2.8RSR.
Agree with you Oliver in eVrything you say except you have swallowed the MEGA marketing PILL of Porsche and actually consider the later post 98 cars to be real RS in the true spirit as they were intended as the 2.7RS. The 964RS (More So) and the 993RS can wear the Porsche RS badge with pride in all variants.
There was a TOTAL TOtAL departure in 911 philosphy, design and purpose post 98 which gave way for the incredibly good GT3 cars ..... putting the RS badge on a more finely tuned and set up variant does not make it an RS .... cynical marketing .... so in my book you can only compare the earlier air cooled variants and I would be very biased and say the 964RS comes close, not forgetting the ultra rare 3.0 sc RS 30 examples .....
I will say it again, 964RS will be proven as the best all round 911RS ever for purpose, feel, feedback and driver involvement, just developed to that fine edge of Porsche Philosphy. We are seeing examples sell for 993RS money now .... they will continue to climb and are now an established modern classic.
Even in the current recession they are selling in droves to the Far East and Australia, the World wants them ... RHD examples which I think are only 47 here in the UK and 71 in total are leaving the UK daily, four last week.
There was a TOTAL TOtAL departure in 911 philosphy, design and purpose post 98 which gave way for the incredibly good GT3 cars ..... putting the RS badge on a more finely tuned and set up variant does not make it an RS .... cynical marketing .... so in my book you can only compare the earlier air cooled variants and I would be very biased and say the 964RS comes close, not forgetting the ultra rare 3.0 sc RS 30 examples .....
I will say it again, 964RS will be proven as the best all round 911RS ever for purpose, feel, feedback and driver involvement, just developed to that fine edge of Porsche Philosphy. We are seeing examples sell for 993RS money now .... they will continue to climb and are now an established modern classic.
Even in the current recession they are selling in droves to the Far East and Australia, the World wants them ... RHD examples which I think are only 47 here in the UK and 71 in total are leaving the UK daily, four last week.
davidcross
New member
HoW brilliantly insightfull, tks guys. It leads me on to my next question though. Would one find driving a LHD version here a pain having only driven RHD Cars in this country? Also how many LHD versions were made do you know and how will adding mileage to one affect values going forward or would buying a RHD version negate that problem?? Many tks once again
If you were to be using a car everyday or for a daily commute I'd say a LHD car has very obvious disadvantages, but 964RSs now tend to be used occasionally - maybe a couple of times a month between Spring and Autumn.
Driving a LHD RS on UK roads is fine. On A and B roads you very quickly learn to position the car to maximise your sightlines - for example looking down the left side of a car in front to check how clear the road ahead is before overtaking. When driving behind modern cars you can actually 'see straight through' the car to the road ahead. The only real problem is encountered when driving behind a large van or lorry which tend to completely block your view - the solution is to position the car a fair distance behind the vehicle in front, which enables you to see approaching traffic then use the car's sheer power to overtake when it's clear. Overtaking doesn't take long in an RS!
Otherwise I find driving a LHD RS perfectly normal - in fact, sitting on the other side off the car to my daily driver adds to the sense of occasion when I take the RS out for a drive.
Reading posts on various forums it is becoming increasingly clear that some people are now looking to by an RS as an investment first and a car second. Possibly they have been priced out of the 2.7RS market and are now looking for the next big thing. It saddens me to think that these cars which eventually be bought purely as an investment as a lot of 2.7RSs are nowadays. Will they go the same way as the 2.7RS? Who can tell? But the 964RS is an obvious 'next place to look' as 2.7RS become increasingly difficult to buy.
I think people should want to own and drive the 964RS for the amazing car it is. That the value will gradually increase could be seen as a bonus - but can also become a liability as owners will tend to drive their car fewer and fewer miles each year, or feel reluctant to expose it to the potential hazards of the race circuit. These cars deserve to be driven, appreciated and shared with other enthusiasts - not kept in static private collections. Of course there are some very low mileage (km) exceptions which are being advertised for top money and will inevitably be bought to sit in a collection next to the owners other ornaments.
I would say don't worry about putting miles on the clock - these cars need to be driven - whether it's on our country roads on a fine weekend, on a well-organised trackday or across Europe to Le Mans, Spa or to next years 20th Anniversary Celebrations.
Buy a 964RS because of what it is... in my opinion one most entertaining Porsches drives available. Drive them, maintain them, enjoy them. 964RSs are intoxicating, addictive and the best legal high you can get.
Driving a LHD RS on UK roads is fine. On A and B roads you very quickly learn to position the car to maximise your sightlines - for example looking down the left side of a car in front to check how clear the road ahead is before overtaking. When driving behind modern cars you can actually 'see straight through' the car to the road ahead. The only real problem is encountered when driving behind a large van or lorry which tend to completely block your view - the solution is to position the car a fair distance behind the vehicle in front, which enables you to see approaching traffic then use the car's sheer power to overtake when it's clear. Overtaking doesn't take long in an RS!
Otherwise I find driving a LHD RS perfectly normal - in fact, sitting on the other side off the car to my daily driver adds to the sense of occasion when I take the RS out for a drive.
Reading posts on various forums it is becoming increasingly clear that some people are now looking to by an RS as an investment first and a car second. Possibly they have been priced out of the 2.7RS market and are now looking for the next big thing. It saddens me to think that these cars which eventually be bought purely as an investment as a lot of 2.7RSs are nowadays. Will they go the same way as the 2.7RS? Who can tell? But the 964RS is an obvious 'next place to look' as 2.7RS become increasingly difficult to buy.
I think people should want to own and drive the 964RS for the amazing car it is. That the value will gradually increase could be seen as a bonus - but can also become a liability as owners will tend to drive their car fewer and fewer miles each year, or feel reluctant to expose it to the potential hazards of the race circuit. These cars deserve to be driven, appreciated and shared with other enthusiasts - not kept in static private collections. Of course there are some very low mileage (km) exceptions which are being advertised for top money and will inevitably be bought to sit in a collection next to the owners other ornaments.
I would say don't worry about putting miles on the clock - these cars need to be driven - whether it's on our country roads on a fine weekend, on a well-organised trackday or across Europe to Le Mans, Spa or to next years 20th Anniversary Celebrations.
Buy a 964RS because of what it is... in my opinion one most entertaining Porsches drives available. Drive them, maintain them, enjoy them. 964RSs are intoxicating, addictive and the best legal high you can get.
I think Oliver's right about the status of the 2.7RS. You have to be very careful about comparing cars of different era. Visually what appeals to one doesn't to another - and that's relevant because of the pictures little boys stick on their wall and then grow up wanting to own, this drives prices (hence $1,000,000 dollar american muscle cars), and much of this is a fashion thing or at least media driven.
As to left hand drive v right hand drive, dig back into the archives of this forum as it's been debated often. Much of it is about convenience of rhd but with a twisted driving position against the inconvienence of lhd at car parks and tolls with the driving position originally concieved for the car.
Buying any Porsche RS shouldn't be about the resale value - if it is you've missed the point.
As to left hand drive v right hand drive, dig back into the archives of this forum as it's been debated often. Much of it is about convenience of rhd but with a twisted driving position against the inconvienence of lhd at car parks and tolls with the driving position originally concieved for the car.
Buying any Porsche RS shouldn't be about the resale value - if it is you've missed the point.
davidcross
New member
All great insights many
tks once again. It would b for experience of ownership first and formost but equally u don't want to Lose your shirt on a car that will b used fairly occasionally given sharp recent price rises although I'm sure that wouldn't be the case. Also in terms if power, what r we talking 0-62 numbers??? There is a LHD modified version on PH at GT Classics in silver that looks v nice. Tks again
tks once again. It would b for experience of ownership first and formost but equally u don't want to Lose your shirt on a car that will b used fairly occasionally given sharp recent price rises although I'm sure that wouldn't be the case. Also in terms if power, what r we talking 0-62 numbers??? There is a LHD modified version on PH at GT Classics in silver that looks v nice. Tks again
oldtimer
PCGB Member
Well David , the words of the prophet Des are the best guide to values now and future , he is the 'market maker' [
].However if you are worried about the investment angle bearing in mind that the buy in price could be around 50K to 75K , just remember how buying a similar cost new/slightly used 997C2S would score on this investment angle.....thats going to be a bit more like losing your shirt !
As for power , you won't notice a lot of difference in performance '0-62' for 964RS versus 997C2S , my 'enhanced' 964RS (295 hp) was as fast as my 04 997C2S (355 hp ) , just under 5 secs with clutch abuse. The older car had the edge on Donington circuit however by about 3 sec a lap , part of this was down to better brakes and rubber.
As for LHD , that's the muscle-building and purer form of the RS...less comfortable , more demanding...
The silver car used to be Matt's ( mat65) , has been discussed elsewhere on this forum....tempted ???[
]
Hacki
Active member
Couldn´t have been said better.
Ref 73 RS and 964 RS: I doubt the 964 RS will ever have the same status as the 73 RS has now, but it will come close. But, as mentioned above: It doesn´t matter. It´s already an iconic car, with a unique driving experience - nothing beats that for those who love it.
LHD / RHD: For me the LHD -as John said also- is the real thing.
0 - 62 figures: Don´t worry, a 964 RS properly driven is fast enough, always and everywhere. 62 - 0 figures are even more impressive, and so are the 162 - 0 figures.[
]Rgds,
Hacki
davidcross
New member
The Silver one at GT Classics is v nice although I'm not sure about the roll cage and I'm sure DES wud, as a market maker, say it may be a touch expensive. Funny how u mention a 997s as I had one of those that practically halved in value in 2.5 yrs!!'
davidcross
New member
As for being tempted is concerned I will have a 911 in rs variant at some stage but I'll take my time in chosing one rather than buy the first car I see at totally the wrong price which is my usual trait!!!
davidcross
New member
Is without doubt a stunning car but been for sale for some time which tells me these may get cheaper. Also if u consider what's going on in the wider economy then more of these cars may find themselves onto the mkt. First thing for me to do is have a test drive and compare my 993 to one. I have a garage space and the thumbs up from HID which are always the major hurdles!!
davidcross
New member
I'm flying back from Portugal tomorrow but I'm based in Essex
davidcross
New member
Extreemly kind of u and if u are close to London again I'd love to come and admire it. Keep me posted
davidcross
New member
True enough but after 20yrs all cars have a history that u need to be aware of and just because they r on PH doesn't mean that they r all straight, aircooled or not.......
ORIGINAL: ChrisW
I saw one go a couple of weeks ago, but four this week ?
Ignoring all, the aircooled Porsches are, Really Special .. [
Chris I was informed by a very close contact in the Industry who has always been very reliable. He sources cars NOT for sale as well ..... they were 4 RHD 984RS nearly 10% UK Market and I would bet he sold them at top money.
LHD V RHD with the demise £ v Euro prices have reached parity. I would always buy the LHD side by side, even living here. It just feels right, looks better and does'nt shout I'm afraid of driving a LHD in UK. Easy mate, especially you now have the Ploishers Guide to help [
][][]![[sm=kiss.gif]](/forum/styles/default/pcgb/kiss.gif "Kiss [sm=kiss.gif]")
[][]Values .... I will say it again 964RS values will consolidate and RISE again pro rata on kilometres and condition. They are a hedge similar to Gold, and you can drive them, but don't buy as an investment no no no .... drive it, but nice to know you will always sell it for more.
Buy the Silver car from GT Classics [
]
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