Hello! First time 944 owner here.
- Thread starter Monkeythree
- Start date
Diver944
Active member
Don't apologise. We all need to know where we have got good service from at reasonable prices so we actively encourage people to recommend suppliers.[
] This way it will help people like Monkey keep these great cars on the road as they are all disappearing off to the scrapheap in ever increasing numbers now.The only thing the Admins don't like is badmouthing suppliers at the other end of the scale which is a whole different ballgame.
It doesn't take long to work out who is not being recommended very often
edh
New member
The side trims (plus gaskets) are very expensive. By now probably over £300 for both sides. A cheaper option would be to replace with a normal hatch with rubber spoiler. It'll probably cost less than you can get for the damaged bridge spoiler one.
To be honest, until you have made a good assessment of the body and engine, I wouldn't bother on the cosmetic stuff.
For tips on repairing a rusty shell - colin944's your man [
]
Monkeythree
New member
Bridge spoiler hockey stick and gasket for passenger side is what I need! Will make contant with the source in the next days.
I'm pretty confident that the rust is all superficial and can be sorted quite easily.
Thanks everyone for the advice so far.
M3
I'm pretty confident that the rust is all superficial and can be sorted quite easily.
Thanks everyone for the advice so far.
M3
Peter Empson had much more dramatic pictures than that!ORIGINAL: edh
Saved that one for posterity [
Put some pics up - including inside the sills - down the door vent.
Hope it doesn't look like this...
It's all fixable though
(Where is Peter BTW? I haven't seen him on here for a while.)
Oli.
pauljmcnulty
Active member
Please get a few pics up, particularly inside the sills, before you commit too far with the smaller, less important jobs? It might be fine, but it'd be a shame to see time wasted.
I was really sad to see a turbo last year at a specilaist, bought for about £4K. He took it in to get a few small jobs done, and it turned out to be so rotten it was sold straight on for scrap. If the bodywork is going to need major work that's when you might think about the costs of getting it right, or buying one that's in better shape? These cars do tend to hide their condition, particularly around the lower edges where the stoneguard hides corrosion until it's progressed more than you'd ever think from the small signs on the outside. [&o]
It's a shame you're so far away from Colchester. A friend of mine restores cars, and did my wings for £150 (cut out the rust, hand made replacement panels, welded into place, stonechipped them). He's quoted £150 to grind off bad repairs on the sills, made good, and patch up a bit of sill rust.
Monkeythree
New member
Hi All,
If my very limited computing skills have worked then here is a quick snap of the worst of the sill area (also shows the door which will be an easy repair)
If my very limited computing skills have worked then here is a quick snap of the worst of the sill area (also shows the door which will be an easy repair)
Monkeythree
New member
How do I get a photo of the insides of the sill please?
I have a MIG welder and I have done inner and outer sills on a Firenza before so I would happy enough tackling them myself (if I ever get the time!!)
Cheers,
M3
I have a MIG welder and I have done inner and outer sills on a Firenza before so I would happy enough tackling them myself (if I ever get the time!!)
Cheers,
M3
pauljmcnulty
Active member
Door vent is here:
You can get a cameraphone in there easily unless you have huge hands. Expect to see some rust, but it's easy to treat through the same access point. What you're looking for is whether it's light corrosion, and if it's serious then whether it's gone through the inner sill as well.
I don't think your picture looks clever from the outside. The thick stonechip layer, and the heavy-duty Porsche-standard paintwork, do tend to mean that the internal condition is masked for many years before it shows through. That said, mine looked far worse on the outside than it was when they cut the rotten patches out, so it's not possible to know until you get the grinder on it.
I guess my thread has lots of pics of one that wasn't too bad, and Peter Empson's website shows a more serious case. The metallic green one on here a year or so ago was pretty frightening as well, has anyone got a link to that?
There is an argument that once you're cutting in to them and welding, and then repainting, it's pretty academic how far advanced the rust is. The turbo I saw on the ramps at RPM was a good example of how a shell can be too far gone to repair, with daylight showing through most of the panels. That was rusted through on both sills, the floor on both sides, both rear wells and the spare wheel well, all four wings, the windscreen surround, and all the jacking points and suspension mounting areas. []
You can get a cameraphone in there easily unless you have huge hands. Expect to see some rust, but it's easy to treat through the same access point. What you're looking for is whether it's light corrosion, and if it's serious then whether it's gone through the inner sill as well.
I don't think your picture looks clever from the outside. The thick stonechip layer, and the heavy-duty Porsche-standard paintwork, do tend to mean that the internal condition is masked for many years before it shows through. That said, mine looked far worse on the outside than it was when they cut the rotten patches out, so it's not possible to know until you get the grinder on it.
I guess my thread has lots of pics of one that wasn't too bad, and Peter Empson's website shows a more serious case. The metallic green one on here a year or so ago was pretty frightening as well, has anyone got a link to that?
There is an argument that once you're cutting in to them and welding, and then repainting, it's pretty academic how far advanced the rust is. The turbo I saw on the ramps at RPM was a good example of how a shell can be too far gone to repair, with daylight showing through most of the panels. That was rusted through on both sills, the floor on both sides, both rear wells and the spare wheel well, all four wings, the windscreen surround, and all the jacking points and suspension mounting areas. [
]Monkeythree
New member
How do they get so rusty in the sills? I though the bodyshells were galvanised as new so I would have assumed that this would have extended the protection for many years?
Will have a bash down the vent hole at the weekend and see what I can see. I'm pretty happy attacking with an angle grinder until I reach something solid and then building back up from there but I would like to try to recreate a "factory" finish to the joins between the sill and the rear wing panel. I see this as being the tricky bit.
Is there somewhere where I can buy repair panels at a reasonable price or should I expect to have to fabricate everything myself?
Cheers.
M3
Will have a bash down the vent hole at the weekend and see what I can see. I'm pretty happy attacking with an angle grinder until I reach something solid and then building back up from there but I would like to try to recreate a "factory" finish to the joins between the sill and the rear wing panel. I see this as being the tricky bit.
Is there somewhere where I can buy repair panels at a reasonable price or should I expect to have to fabricate everything myself?
Cheers.
M3
pauljmcnulty
Active member
You could get repair panels from Porsche until a few months ago. They were the entire inner and outer sill section from front to back, and only about £150 per side. Now NLA.
There are repair sections, but only cover panels. Don't bother, as it's as economical to fabricate from scratch.
The "galvanised lasts for ever" myth is long since shattered, I'm afraid. My Ifor Williams trailer is rusty in places at less than ten years old; galvanising is a help, not a cure. The area in the back corner inside the sill collects moisture, and with the salt that gets in to the water it'll corrode through eventually. The sills are vented at both ends, so with regular use were designed to stay dry. In practice, this is only of limited effect, and even the air inside the sills contains moisture so a car that's never been out in the rain isn't immune.
I think it needs to be put in context, though. I've asked this question hundreds of times over the years, and no-one's ever come up with an answer. Is there a production car designed in the late '70s, and built throughout the '80s, that rusts less? I don't think so. The only problem is that it costs the same to restore a 944 as any other car, so it's a lot of money in relation to it's value compared to a contemporary 911, for example.
The car is 21 years old. The galvanising *has* extended the protection for many years. Non-galvanised, it would probably have been as it is now in around 2000 or 2001. A lot of classic non-galvanised 911s had to be extensively restored after about 10 years in the era of the '73 and '74 2.7 litre cars.
As it is, this car has lasted until 2013 before requiring signficant attention, so that's progress. Galvanising is a sacrificial protection... it delays corrosion when the car is exposed to corrosion-inducing conditions, but it's not industrial magic and it doesn't last for ever. How long did cars last before requiring replacement wings, sills, floors welding up, etc, in the pre-galvanising era? Almost all the mass production cars built in 1991 went to the scrapper years ago.
If it's any consolation the 911s of the same year (the 964 model) are, I believe, on average worse for tin-worm than the average 944 and even the subsequent two models (993 and even 996) which post-date the 944 altogether are now starting to experience significant rust in some cases. I saw a 996 GT3 last year (on Pistonheads, I think) which was in mid-restoration with a lot of corrosion on it, and was about a 2001-built car.
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