Ferrari 944 or Porsche 250?

[Peter Empson]

I know we've discussed these before but this was the first time I've seen these rather odd mutants up close and thought I'd share some pics. They're a Ferrari 250 inspired kit car based upon a 944 and there was a pair at the Stoneleigh lit car show yesterday. The one without the stripe was based upon an S2, I'm not sure about the other one.

I do rather like the exposed gear shift gate. The Ferrari logo sewn into the Porsche seat was maybe one step too far though [&:]

Whatever you or I may think of these, the quality of workmanship was impressive and a league above most other 'replicas' I've looked at.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Whatever you or I may think of these, the quality of workmanship was impressive and a league above most other 'replicas' I've looked at.

I like it. Classic Ferrari looks, but reliable and it'll handle properly. Far nicer than the testarossa lookalike monstrosity!

 

[appletonn]

I'd rather have a real one....[8|][]

Actually a 250 SWB would do nicely, sigh.[8|]

 

[Neil Haughey]

I like the front and the back but the middle bit just doesn't look right to me. If one is going to that much work and expense then why not cut the roof off and get the windscreen rake etc. correct. It looks a bit ill thought out to me, same with the dash which is obviously a 944 series 2 dash with an instrument cluster stuck on, doesn't look like a real 250 dash. Same again with the seats when you can buy period looking for seats for a couple of hundred quid a pair why fit Porsche seats?

Maybe I just don't get it, cars like the Hawk stratos I get as they look superb and if anything are better engineered then the real thing. However the down side is the really great kit cars cost more to build then a secondhand 997.

 

[mik_ok]

I can't comment on the quality of the workmanship (other than to say that it appears very good in the pics!).

I admit that I don't "get" this kinda thing though.

Lower picture is the real deal - there are several areas where the basic geometry is a mile out (distance from front wheel to the
door, shape of front wings and offset of front wheels) so whilst it's not offensive to look at in isolation it's certainly not close to being a replica.

I'd much rather have a classic Porsche 944 shape with 944 reliability and handling... [&:]

 

[DavidL]

I watched one of these based on a 240z go through the H+H auction a week or 2 back. It went for 22K so they are not cheap.
I'm not sure about replicas - I suppose if you must have a 250gt realistically they will be way out of reach for all but a very few.
Having said that 550 spyder reps are lovely and I don't think I would want a real one as they are really a bit old.....

 

[Pastry]

[:'(]

I guess the owners get enough attention from the uneducated masses & small children. Great if thats what youre after, and what other reason is there for spending so much time and money on it.

Its as cool as a fake rolex.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

ORIGINAL: Pastry

[:'(]

I guess the owners get enough attention from the uneducated masses & small children. Great if thats what youre after, and what other reason is there for spending so much time and money on it.

Its as cool as a fake rolex.

I'm really not sure now. [&:]

I remember a car I saw a lot when I was a schoolkid. It was only a Cortina, but it had a ropey fiberglass Countach body on it. It did get a lot of attention, I'm sure the owner had a moustache and probably a mullet, but it was kinda cool to a kid. Cool wall? No.

944, obviously on the cool wall. Still the best classic car for under £5K. No argument.

Ferrari? Unless you can afford £30K per year depreciation it's an old one, then. So: unreliable, wicked costs to run, you look like Mr Mullet when driving your "Magnum PI" wreck. Not really that cool.

Proper classic Ferrari? Millions. Useability? Zero. Cool, let's face it - unless you're Rowan Atkinson or Nick Mason people will think you're driving a fake anyway.

Am I the only one that thinks it's kind of cool to have pseudo-classic looks, properly done, on a decent donor car? No self-respecting petrolhead will fail to spot the fact it's a replica, but they would also appreciate the fact it drives well and is pretty cost effective? I looked at a company that take an E-Type, insert new Jag mechanicals and give you a proper car that still looks like a classic. Wrong in so many ways, but I just see it as a pain-free way to drive an E-Type with ABS, air-con and modern electrics. The 250 clone seems similar to me; not a fake, but a celebration of a classic. [8|]

 

[Neil Haughey]

Paul those E type are very cool but ISTR they look and feel like a real E type and cost a very serious amount of money. I also believe that the Hawk Stratos and Ultima are very cool but again also very expensive.

We are all forgetting one thing though, we already have an in-house kit car repro to build. Take a 924 body and mechanicals of your choice and build a 924 carrera GT/GTS/GTR replica.

 

[Peter Empson]

I've found some more information here (click on GTO kits for sale). This was one of the few Ferrari replicas that I wasn't trying hard not to laugh out loud at, most are truly awful (and their owners seemingly desperate to complete the image by being draped in Ferrari clothing [8|]). I suspect it might drive quite well if it's as light as I think it could be, and I have great respect for anyone that puts that much care and attention into anything they do, but a look alike without an attempt to replicate the performance or character of the original doesn't really do anything for me.

 

[Pastry]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty

Am I the only one that thinks it's kind of cool to have pseudo-classic looks, properly done, on a decent donor car? No self-respecting petrolhead will fail to spot the fact it's a replica, but they would also appreciate the fact it drives well and is pretty cost effective? I looked at a company that take an E-Type, insert new Jag mechanicals and give you a proper car that still looks like a classic. Wrong in so many ways, but I just see it as a pain-free way to drive an E-Type with ABS, air-con and modern electrics. The 250 clone seems similar to me; not a fake, but a celebration of a classic. [8|]

But surely using GRP and filler to butcher a 944 is the desecration of a classic. [][]

 

[Hilux]

there was a pair at the Stoneleigh lit car show yesterday

I went too on Sunday.

I blagged a free exhibitors pass (in the Golf) from a gate person (who likes Mk 1 Golfs [] which was nice) as I needed door aperture seals and wanted to try samples before I purchased so I knew they would fit. I was looking out for my old Westy (loads of them there) and meeting some Westy and Ginetta club members I used to know through their forums etc.

Loads of bits and bobs, fixings, trim, workshop stuff for sale cheap....................and the cars were nice to.

Did you drool around the Ultima section, especially the Can-Am`s. I parked next to them [8|][8|][8|] They are my ultimate car - superb quality, awesome cars.

 

[Peter Empson]

Hi Paul,
It was a great turnout, wasn't it!

I managed to get quite a few odds and ends for my car, including an oversize rear hatch seal which might solve the fume problems I've been getting.

The Ultima turnout was fantastic, and I spent a bit of time admiring a supercharged Can Am (which uses a Procharger similar to mine), although if I was going to build one I'd go for one with a roof. I came quite close to buying a built mk1 a few years back (the one that looked like a very square 962) but in hindsight wisely decided against it.

I was quite taken with the Spire cars too, first time I'd looked at them and they seemed to offer pretty good value, with bike or car engine fitment possible.

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty
........ The 250 clone seems similar to me; not a fake, but a celebration of a classic. [8|]

Only in the same way a blow up doll is a celebration of a real woman. NOT!!

 

[944 man]

ORIGINAL: Peter Empson
I managed to get quite a few odds and ends for my car, including an oversize rear hatch seal which might solve the fume problems I've been getting.

Do you have a PC rear window? If so you can usually seal it tight by drilling the pane and running panel spring clips through the rain channel in the spoiler (to the catches fixed with rivets to the rear body).

Simon

 

[Peter Empson]

The gaps I have are at the sides and not the bottom, the old screen was much worse for this but the new one is not only a better shape but was also tied during curing to the frame, forcing it into shape. As long as the new seal isn't too big (and stops it closing) then I think it might just work. I also found an almost identical seal for standard cars and at £3-4 per metre much cheaper than the genuine part, all it lacks is the lip on the outside, but as this just traps dirt and then scratches the paint I don't think this is likely to be a problem.

 

[944 man]

Where was the replacement from?

 

[Peter Empson]

The new one was made by P4P, their top screen/coating and 1mm thicker than I had before (I know, it's too heavy []).

 

[Hilux]

Hi Paul,
It was a great turnout, wasn't it!

It was.

For all those that love to knock kit cars......................dont. Its very easy and very boring.

Its because of the engineering excellence that is inherent (a wasted talent in my book) in the British and luckily the fact that that the EU hasnt banned kit cars from the roads as they are not allowed in Europe (apart I believe from Holland) that we have such a diverse car industry that remains. I know that european enthusiasts are genuinely jealous and envious in that in the UK you can buy a box of bits and put it on the road via the SVA system. Nowhere else is ther such a system which is why you have to type approve new cars over there.

If you`ve never attended a national kit car or custom car show then if you are a true enthusiast you will note what huge talent there is out there before knocking someones perhaps less able endeavours.

If it werent for kit cars etc components availability would be less and the manufacturers of specialist kit and parts wouldnt survive.

There may be a few dodgy looking ones but I have found that anyone can bolt on goodies to a manufactured car (or have a garage do it) and claim to be true motoring enthusiasts. They may well be but only a few actually build/alter/adapt the cars they drive. The kit car owner has a huge gain in satisfaction in driving something they have made. I know they are supposed to be kits but you have to MAKE them fit and they are constantly evolving.

I must admit I dont understand some of the kits nor their purpose or dynamics BUT how many detractors can say "I built my car"?

I`ve restored a classic Rover and built/adapted two kits (Westfield VX XE and Ginetta G27) - see my web site - and the sense of achievement when they work from cobbling together a load of parts (some experimental) is unbelievable.

My Golf (when completed) will benefit from the shell and glass but thats it, it`ll be all my work and I`ll wager I`ll see many cars (including 944`s) in my mirrors.

Rant over [8|]

 

[Neil Haughey]

Well I have always lusted after a Hawk Stratos with an Alfa GTA V6 motor in the back but this one just doesn't hit the right notes for me Paul.

Also worth remembering the huge effort ppl put into these projects. When I was looking at Ultimas, GTD40 and stratos kits you could be looking at up to 400 hours to build. My S2 is currently around 80 or 90 hours and still requires putting back together. Will be at least 130 hours total, therefore building a kit car is at least 3 times as much effort as stripping apart and rebuilding a 944.