engine oil??
- Thread starter foosh944
- Start date
944 man
Active member
Keep your eye on the consumption. If its high then try 15W or 20W and itll probably go down significantly. Its usually only the late engines which suffer in this way. I had a 1985 car which ran without using a drop, on Silkolene ProS 5W. If you used the same oil in my far lower mileage 2.7 then itd be doing more miles per gallon of petrol than it would oil!
Simon
Simon
Simon,
No, it didn't, but we all knew what you meant! [
]
Oil is much-debated on here; do a search. Two schools of thought - 1. Buy the best oil you can, and 2. Oil tech has moved ahead massively in the last 20 years and the stuff the engine is designed to run on is so out-dated now that anything available today is an improvement. FWIW, I use good-quality 10W40 semi-synth in my S2, and at 170k miles it still uses just about none. I change it every 5,000 miles and it works out vastly cheaper than fully-synth stuff, as well as being better for the engine.
Opinions vary!
Oli.
No, it didn't, but we all knew what you meant! [
]Oil is much-debated on here; do a search. Two schools of thought - 1. Buy the best oil you can, and 2. Oil tech has moved ahead massively in the last 20 years and the stuff the engine is designed to run on is so out-dated now that anything available today is an improvement. FWIW, I use good-quality 10W40 semi-synth in my S2, and at 170k miles it still uses just about none. I change it every 5,000 miles and it works out vastly cheaper than fully-synth stuff, as well as being better for the engine.
Opinions vary!
Oli.
Copperman05
New member
I have a bit of a facination with oil and tribology. The oil you use will depend on how you use your car, my philosophy is that oil is cheap (comparatively), you only change it once a year or every 6-8000 miles, for extra piece of mind and insurance for your engine buy the best you can. A good quality PAO fully synthetic oil like Castrol Edge or similar will give more than enough protection for average use. If you drive the car particularly hard or do track days one of the ester synthetics will shear less and remain in grade for longer (offer better protection when pushing hard) . Buy the the correct grade too, 5w40 is the thinnest I would use and will perform best in winter, although some find it increases oil consumtion, 10w50 ester is about the thickest I would go but will handle the hardest of track days if changed regularly. Do not go below XXw40 grade (10w30, etc) its is too thin and not recommend by Porsche.
As stated above there is nothing wrong with the cheaper semi or mineral oils under average conditions, however as our cars are performance cars and may often be driven as such in the long term your engine will thank you for investing a little more in it..
Edd
As stated above there is nothing wrong with the cheaper semi or mineral oils under average conditions, however as our cars are performance cars and may often be driven as such in the long term your engine will thank you for investing a little more in it..
Edd
944 man
Active member
Id be happy to give a quality 15W- PAO ester synthetic oil a go in any front runner, and Id probably be happy with a similar 20W- too. It gives all (20W slightly less so, but still good for virtually every winter day we will ever have) of the winter performance that we need and with a 50 or 60 hot rating itll handle whatever you can throw at it on a track or an Alpine pass.
Copperman05
New member
Thanks Simon, although I find an oils HTHS (High Temperature High Shear) rating is a much more accurate test of how an oil will perform under high temperature conditions than its standard xxwxx rating which can vary greatly from oil to oil even those with the same stated grade. Basically the (HTHS) test measures the oils thickness under high temp and high shear conditions (hence the name), testing the oil at 150C for extended periods gives a much better example of how an oil might perform under high temp conditions. This is when you see the true value of synthetic oils over mineral/semi.
For example the minimum recommended by the ACAE A3/B4 rating (European standard) is a HTHS of 3.5, most mineral oils and semi's (10w40) will not reach this standard perhaps only giving a HTHS of 2.9 or so, Mobile 1 (0W40) gives HTHS of 3.6 (perhaps not recommended for ours cars but still a very good oil) whilst a good ester synth gives a HTHS of 4.6 and that's a 5W40, therefore beating most mineral/semi 10w40 and 15w40 (and even some mineral/semi 10w-25w50) oils whilst remaining a better performing oil in winter conditions.
Whilst the benefits of a 25w50 or 10w60 oil may look good on paper under high temp condtions, the disadvantages they bring are long warm up times (more wear from cold starts) and higher friction which can cause overheating (especially on track). An ester synthetic 10w50 will also also stay in grade much better then a semi 10w60 which may shear down to a 5w40 after limited but heavy track use.
In choosing the best oil for your engine you should use the thinnest oil suitable for your application, thinner oils give better oil flow rates, better winter protection, better mpg, better bhp, etc. However, if tracking or racing the car an oils HTHS becomes more prevalent and a thicker oil will perform better under high temp condtions. If you are experiencing high oil consumption you may also benefit from a thicker oil, but remember to address any engine oil leaks and sealing issues too.
Edd
Copperman05
New member
Yes Millers Nanodrive oils are some of the best motorsport oils currently on the market, finally we agree on something at least....[
][8D]Edd
I think this bit is key; everyone's oil requirements differ, and there is no point in buying an oil which is hugely over-specced for your own requirements. How often does anyone see oil temperatures of 150degC for long periods of time? Really? As I understand it, oil temperatures typically don't exceed 110degC on a spirited track day and usually stay down below 100degC. 150degC is a LONG way up for this, and if you are spending extra on oil because of this property then you are wasting your money.
The other point is that the quality (or technology) of your oil is one of the less important variables in the debate, but is focussed on more often than other factors - and more than it should be. Frequency of change is a much more significant point to consider; as oil gets used it both loses it's lubrication properties and picks up debris which will actively wear the moving parts of the engine. (Yes, an oil filter doesn't take everything out.) Changing the oil solves both of these problems, as well as removing any water that may have built up in the sump from condensation and dissolved fuel from ring blow-past (both of which are also bad news.) More sophisticated oils may retain their lubrication properties for longer, but don't make any difference to these other factors.
My preference (and advice, if anyone wants it) is not to spend a lot of money per litre of expensive synthetic oil, rather to spend significantly less on a cheaper oil and change it more frequently. I put reasonable-quality semi-synth oil in my S2, but it never goes more than 5000 miles between changes (and sometimes a reasonable amount less.) The cost of the oil is a LOT lower (less than £2/litre, so around £10 a sump-full) and I know the protection is more than adequete - and much better than spending £6 or £7 a litre, and changing it less frequently.
5000 miles between oil changes means 2 or 3 changes a year, and I'd do it more frequently if I thought there was benefit in it. There is no substitute for clean, fresh oil.
Oli.
... a case in point; his advice is no doubt good and very technical-sounding, and he uses it to sell hugely over-specced oils to people who have no need for that degree of sophistication.ORIGINAL: Hilux
Look up " Opie Oils " and ask the expert
Used by car forums for good advice for years - good prices on high performance and specialist oils too [
Oli.
Copperman05
New member
Oli, I am not indicating our cars run at 150c, the HTHS at 150c test pushes the oil to its limits and shows how it might perform under pressure. Its not a requirement for an engine to run at 150c+to benefit from the protection the higher scoring oils provide. The ACAE A3/B4 rating is an industry standard and a starting point for many vehicle manufactures recommendations, it is not overkill its a minimum requirement set by the organisation to provide adequate protection for European engine manufacturers.
I am not suggesting we all go buy ester sythetic oil, but I am convinced most will see benefits in using an oil that meets or exceeds the A3/B4 rating, as I suggested above a good PAO synth is more than enough for most users.
The costs savings you advocate are so minimal (£25 using the figures you have provided) compared to the overall running costs of our cars I really dont see any credible argument to it. Isn't it better therefore to err on the side of caution, its not overkill, its good practice. I'm not sure how you drive your car (actually come to think of it I do!) but I know what I'd want in my engine next time I'm doing 120 for 2hrs on the autobahn or driving 2700m up in the Alps, £25 well spent...
Edd
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