Dual Port Wastegate

[chrisdenton]

I've decided to get a DPW does any one have one for sale before I part with my hard earned cash?????

 

[sawood12]

I thought someone had a Tail DPW going not so long ago?

You will also need a boost controller but they are quite cheap to buy new(unless you want to go down the electronic route), and probably new chips if you intent to creep the boost up above std.

 

[Fen]

A new TiAL isn't all that expensive and you can sell on your original for £100 or so (unless it's cracked). I'm not sure what to advise on adaptors - possibly don't bother with them and get the exhaust modified to suit the TiAL as that's zero hassle from then on. That's how mine is done. In fact Simon at ESS was at least partially interested in having an exhaust made with TiAL flanges when I last spoke to him, so he might do you one for the same money as the standard WG type if you get him the TiAL to use as a pattern. I don't know of anyone selling a TiAL. I can't imagine anyone would unless the car is being broken for some reason and (touch wood) none of us TiAL owners have had an off so far. Unless of course it's Jon Mitchell breaking Paul's LIL []

 

[chrisdenton]

I asked Jon but apparently he's already sold it to the bloke that bought the wheels and exhaust[]

Seriously though apart from the physical differences what are the pro's and cons of the Tial over the the Lindsay and whats the price difference. I currently have a level 1a kit fitted.

 

[Fen]

I *think* the Lindsey one is a reworked original, which I further *think* would mean it is still susceptible to cracking as the original ones seem to be. I know they are crack tested before they are reworked, but I don't doubt all the original wastegates that have cracked would have passed a crack test earlier in their life. In other works my personal view is that the Lindsey one is only half new, and there is a known problem with the donor component of the half that is retained, whereas the TiAL is all new. Since they cost the same sort of money and you can sell the original if it is not cracked when you buy a TiAL (do Lindsey themselves need a core?) it's a no brainer to me. OK the TiAL part doesn't bolt straight on, but in honesty neither do very many Lindsey parts in my experience. It's a standing joke when I take an upgrade part to my indie "does it fit, or is it a Lindsey 'nearly' fit?"

 

[sawood12]

The Lindsay wastegate is what i've got fitted and it is as Fen said a re-worked std wastegate. The cast alloy body of the wastegate is retained and a new diaphram mechanism is bolted on top in place of the std one. This means there are no issues with fitting (apart from the usual siezed exhaust flange bolts that shears the studs in the wastegate but these). However there is a risk of cracking with the original housings as the wastegate I removed was cracked. Apparently Lindsay were looking to develop a repair for the housings but my knowlege of cast alloys is that it would probably wouldn't be economically viable as the material isn't weldable.

There are two different designs of wastegate housing the difference being the number of cooling fin cast into them so I don't know if this change was introduced to tackle the housing cracking issue or to introduce more cooling capacity of the fins.

However speaking to Paragon in the States they seem to think that the housing cracking thing isn't a big prolem.

I bought my wastegate from the states which turned out to be cheaper than buying in the UK even without the core refund due to my wastegate housing being cracked.

 

[Fen]

I wonder if the cracking is due to thermal shock because the WG can get splashed where it is located. That being the case it may be less prevalent in the US where perhaps the weather promotes less (or less cold) standing water. Remember that if you get much colder than the UK in winter then any standing water becomes ice, so we may have the worst possible climate for it. Most that I know of having cracked are 220 cars (to the point I wonder if most are now cracked), but I also know of a "Silver Rose" spec car that is now running my old WG as it had a cracked one also.

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: chrisdenton

I asked Jon but apparently he's already sold it to the bloke that bought the wheels and exhaust[]

La La La I'm not listening to you guys.

Jon says LIL is fine and he even gave her a hug on Christmas Day.

Last week for the first time he actually gave me a tentative completion date. I'm not saying what that date is because I don't want to jinx it any more, suffice to say it's definitely 21st century

 

[sawood12]

I wondered if the cracking was due to vibration and movement in the exhaust. Since the exhaust input and output pipes are at 90 degrees to eachother any movement in the exhaust system is trying to pull and push the wastegate apart like a wishbone. This along with the body of he wastegate being cast - i.e. rough surface finish = lots of stress raising features on the surface of the housing, the hammer the housing takes over the years will take it's toll, also cast alloy is a brittle material so is not very good at taking any pressure.

The Tail looks like it is made by machining a solid billet which means much stronger material that is much tougher and the machining process leaves a much better surface fininsh hence no stress raisers.

I noticed that my car is missing the rear part of the under tray that would help protect the wastegate from stuff that is kicked up from the road. I've got a fear of something taking out the pressure line from the MBC but I suppose this would be a safe failure since as soon as the as the manifold pressure when above atmospheric the wastegate would open.

 

[appletonn]

Promax Motorsport sell the MBC - it is a Lindsay Racing one, from memory and that is what is in mine.

I think the boost enhancer would need to be removed as the DPW and MBC combo effectively make it redundant. Might want to speak to Andy at Promax just to confirm that though![]

 

[random hero]

Thanks nick ,ive just looked on the promax website and it gives all the details i needed.

 

[Suffolk944]

I have a second hand one for sale - Tom "homesea" was interested in it though not sure if he still is if not then its still available !

 

[sawood12]

You'll need a boost gauge to set the boost to stock boost pressure. Any more than that and you'll be under-fuelling. Also you might experience boost protection cut-in occationally - mainly on cold crisp mornings. I did. Apparently because to boost builds so much quicker with a DPW it tricks the ECU into thinking you're about to overboost.

 

[homesea]

Sorry Jon, I thought you had sold it because I didnt hear anything back. Anyway I have bought one now. Just waiting for my wastegate to turn up then I hope I can hang onto more then 1.4 bar in 3rd and 4th.

Jon what boost level was the car running with the promax Level 2 kit to get 290BHP?

 

[pauly]

ORIGINAL: homesea

Sorry Jon, I thought you had sold it because I didnt hear anything back. Anyway I have bought one now. Just waiting for my wastegate to turn up then I hope I can hang onto more then 1.4 bar in 3rd and 4th.

Jon what boost level was the car running with the promax Level 2 kit to get 290BHP?

Where did you order your wastegate from ?, still considering where to buy myself.

 

[random hero]

ORIGINAL: Suffolk944

I have a second hand one for sale - Tom "homesea" was interested in it though not sure if he still is if not then its still available !

How much do you want for it ??

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: homesea

I hope I can hang onto more then 1.4 bar in 3rd and 4th.

MORE than 1.4bar []

That's over 20psi - make sure your fueling is spot on and you should be around 320 on the standard AFM

 

[sawood12]

I assume you mean 1.4 bar absolute! If not even with an MBC you'd probably struggle to hold that much pressure as an MBC also bleeds pressure at high RPM. You'll need an EBC.

 

[Suffolk944]

Had to check back on the parts for sale thread - am looking for £35 for the MBC (o.n.o. !)

Tom - yikes 1.4 bar ? As Scott says am assuming thats absolute as shown by the dash gauge ?

The only time I dyno'd DHX with the Level 2 kit on was on the rollers of truth at Silverstone where she made 274BHP (0.7BHP less than Scott which I am still bitter and twisted about !) The result are on Ricks site and I think the print outs are in the folder of bumph that went with the car. She was set up at 1.1 bar for that with the MBC, now I have an EBC my new car sits at 1.2 bar.

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: Suffolk944

now I have an EBC my new car sits at 1.2 bar.

......and it's with the larger K26/8 turbo and you have a 3" exhaust which should increase the output flow as well as reduce any lag. It would be interesting to see your charts now.