Crankshaft End Play

[dlknight]

Well bit more progress on the 944 Turbo today...



Good news - got the clutch out (had to drill 3 of the 9 bolts that had rounded), flywheel came out much easier than the pressure plate... BUT
Bad news - when removing the flywheel I noticed there was a lot of end play on the crankshaft...

Got out my dial meter and it looks to be around 0.84mm (twice the wear limit of 0.40 in the WSM)

I assume this is why my RMS leak was sooooo bad...

Those of you more knowledgeable about these engines, I guess that means I need to rebuild?

Looks like the car is going to be a longer term project than I initially thought! []

David

 

[Eldavo]

If only there was someone with a spare 2.5 crankshaft sat in the corner of their garage []

 

[dlknight]

If only there was someone with a spare 2.5 crankshaft sat in the corner of their garage []

We may have to have a chat about that

So I'm not sure of the next steps - main problem is my car is orientated with the front at the back of the garage and I don't have much room (single garage, slightly larger than a normal one)... so thinking that I will probably need to get the wheels back on before I can do anything with the engine. Turn the car around and then think about stripping the engine and dropping it out (via the bottom?).

I'm pretty close to Birmingham (just outside Worcester) so thinking that EMC might be better for me getting work done on the block / head. Although I know you and Stuart are using AMAC for your rebuilds.

Part of me wants to dive right in but I think I should finish the refurb of the rear end, get that all put together and then turn the car around and start on the engine...

 

[PSH]

sounds to me that the bearing that incorporates the thrust washer is worn. Mine was the same before the rebuild, new bearing shells sorted that.

Pete

 

[PSH]

Take a look at page 4 of my build thread... it's the middle bearing, note it has a side wall on either side.

 

[dlknight]

sounds to me that the bearing that incorporates the thrust washer is worn. Mine was the same before the rebuild, new bearing shells sorted that.

Pete

Hey Pete,

Yes thanks - I suppose the question is how far do I go, I could possibly get the bottom end redone without going too mad on extras...

I was planning on replacing the rod end bearings but looks like that is the least of my worries now the play is so bad and yes the thrust bearing seems the logical culprit.

Interestingly when I changed the waterpump, belts and tensioners a year or so ago I noticed there was some (not a huge amount) of wear on one side of the timing belt! I guess an experienced mechanic would have noticed that and put two and two together to work out the crankshaft end play was out!

Need to take it apart to find out though which isn't going to happen for awhile whilst I get the current jobs sorted...

David

 

[scam75]

AMAC are indeed very good, both in workmanship and pricing. The down side is quite a long wait..................but probably worth it in the end.

I ended up with an oil pick up pipe strengthener and a hole and fitting for a steam vent kit from the extras drawer, where do you stop when it's all in bits??

Of course many other "non-extras" were uncovered like a damaged oil pump (had eaten something), valve guides worn, balance shaft bearings, a poorly repaired head stud on a damaged thread, and that was all after waiting 4 months for bespoke pistons to be made by JE after Wossner mucked us about. However everything should all now be good as new after a thorough going over of block and head!

Throw in my new liners and all associated fitting work, all bearings and seals replaced, an MLS head gasket specced to correct thickness, block and head skimmed etc, all re-used parts checked and cleaned, total cost was £4.5k which I think was outstanding.

Stuart

 

[dlknight]

Thanks Stuart - I may well go with AMAC but I'm quite far off doing anything with the engine at the moment.

I may well strip the engine down myself and then get the machining work done by the specialists and reassemble if it will save on costs.

I've had a good read through all your engine threads [] - are there any gotchas? I recall someone mentioned that the crank girdle should be left in place when working on the engine?

May I ask for details of the steam vent kit that you and David used? I think I would probably fit this and the oil pipe support.

Dave

 

[PSH]

Hi Dave

It may have been myself who wrote about keeping the cradle bolted to the block, the details should be in my own build thread. Regarding machine shops, I can't rate Serdi UK high enough, their knowledge of engines from any era is perhaps second to none, they are based in Uxbridge.
As for the steam vent kit, these can be made easily enough, I made my own. IIRC I used a BSP elbow fitting drilled/tapped into the cam cover at the rear of the engine, these details should also be in my thread although can't remember for certain.

Pete

 

[scam75]

Thanks Stuart - I may well go with AMAC but I'm quite far off doing anything with the engine at the moment.

I may well strip the engine down myself and then get the machining work done by the specialists and reassemble if it will save on costs.

I've had a good read through all your engine threads [] - are there any gotchas? I recall someone mentioned that the crank girdle should be left in place when working on the engine?

May I ask for details of the steam vent kit that you and David used? I think I would probably fit this and the oil pipe support.

Dave

I'll have a go! Here is the link to the oil pick up pipe strengthener. AMAC used this to fabricate one for me.

https://crank-scrapers.com/Porsche_944.html

For steam vent kit you will need:

1 x AN-6 JIC male t-piece
2 x AN6 / 6AN-6 straight coupler (push on)
2 x AN6 6AN-6 90 Degree fittings
1 x AN6 / 6AN x 1/8 NPT male adapter (goes in head)
1.5 metre of AN6 -6 Black Nylon Outer Braided Hose Pipe

Instructions to fit are all on the Lindsay Racing website. If it helps Dave whatsapp'd me all the ebay links for those things and I'm sure me or him could do same for you!

Stuart

 

[blade7]

Hi Dave
As for the steam vent kit, these can be made easily enough, I made my own. IIRC I used a BSP elbow fitting drilled/tapped into the cam cover at the rear of the engine,

Pete

Oh dear [].

 

[Dan944t]

i believe what Pete thought he wrote was that he drilled and tapped the rear of the head,…not cam cover…..don’t drill and tap that []

 

[dlknight]

Hi Dave

It may have been myself who wrote about keeping the cradle bolted to the block, the details should be in my own build thread. Regarding machine shops, I can't rate Serdi UK high enough, their knowledge of engines from any era is perhaps second to none, they are based in Uxbridge.
As for the steam vent kit, these can be made easily enough, I made my own. IIRC I used a BSP elbow fitting drilled/tapped into the cam cover at the rear of the engine, these details should also be in my thread although can't remember for certain.

Pete

Thanks Pete - read through your build thread as well, lots of ideas coming together but will be trying to keep the budget down and get the engine rebuilt as quickly as possible

I'll have a go! Here is the link to the oil pick up pipe strengthener. AMAC used this to fabricate one for me.

https://crank-scrapers.com/Porsche_944.html

For steam vent kit you will need:

1 x AN-6 JIC male t-piece
2 x AN6 / 6AN-6 straight coupler (push on)
2 x AN6 6AN-6 90 Degree fittings
1 x AN6 / 6AN x 1/8 NPT male adapter (goes in head)
1.5 metre of AN6 -6 Black Nylon Outer Braided Hose Pipe

Instructions to fit are all on the Lindsay Racing website. If it helps Dave whatsapp'd me all the ebay links for those things and I'm sure me or him could do same for you!

Stuart

Cheers Stuart - I can probably find those bits from AP Motorsport on ebay, had a few bits of silicone hose etc from them to replace crazy priced rubber hoses...

i believe what Pete thought he wrote was that he drilled and tapped the rear of the head,…not cam cover…..don’t drill and tap that []

Thanks - yes definitely the head []

 

[PSH]

Ah..sorry chaps...yep...the head...god knows what I was thinking...must be the stress of selling the house...????

 

[Eldavo]

Hi Dave,

I had AMAC do all the machine work for me and had the engine reassembled by my local Indys - so a self-rebuild is a cost effective option.


David

 

[dlknight]

Hi Dave,

I had AMAC do all the machine work for me and had the engine reassembled by my local Indys - so a self-rebuild is a cost effective option.


David

Thanks David - good I don't have a wife as it will probably end up in my utility room when it comes out of the car

 

[dlknight]

I've been watching M539 Restorations channel on youtube, thoroughly entertaining chap. He has been rebuilding an Alpina B7 engine which has Alusil bores like the 944. He originally had the block sleeved by a machine shop in eastern europe but on the first test drive suffered from piston slap. When he stripped the engine he found that the bores were oval shaped and none of them measured the same... Eventually he found a solution but it put him off sleeving...

Here is the first video from the series if you guys are interested -

https://youtu.be/SVM3xeCWuY8

 

[Dan944t]

thanks for sharing []