Buy this or an RS?

[jason]

You'd be mad to spend that money on this rather than an original RS.

However I do think you can build a fully stripped, weld in caged, non sunroof, new suspension, strong engine, repainted C2 track focussed beast for £25-30k.

If you want a car to use and abuse and do lots of track days then thats what I'd do.

If you want a proper RS to have the prestige of ownership and potential investment return with occasional use and odd track day then get a proper RS, if you can pay the difference.

This car though makes no sense to me.

A very well built car it may be but replicas only make sense if they are a lot less than originals and so the only affordable way of having something similar.

A great 2.7RS/2.8RSR replica will sell at 50-60k when originals are 200-400k.

A 964RS rep will not sell at 60k when originals are 60k....

 

[carreraboy]

Could not have put it better Steve spot on .... []

 

[h_____]

Steve - thats a dangerous link, 12k plus Jason thinks for another 13-18k to track mod it. Thats probably right! Good job I've not got that sort of money lying around this could be dangerous! []

 

[Steve Brookes]

Trader Des has probably already bought it by now []

 

[h_____]

ORIGINAL: Steve Brookes

[
It was surreal seeing minty on Saturday morning on the road as you were on the way home as I was going to the circuit....our flash of lights sort of indicated a changing of the guard []

Unfortunately Saturday turned into a frustrating morning with multiple red flags caused by badly prepared cars (obviously not Porsches) breaking down on circuit. The frustration was further compounded by problems with part worn MPSCs (bought from a race team) that I was trying out for the first time. They took an age to heat up and would still let go at the rear with very little warning (much more suddenly than Toyos)....I think Kevin, who was passengering one time, was quite surprised at how sideways it go through Hissie's [8D]. But not as surprised as I was at myself that I corrected it and kept it going in the right direction []

I read elsewhere steve that it was a very different day on Saturday. Oulton is a great circuit to drive, but a car killer when it goes wrong. Caution is definately the best approach. Did the MPSCs get better? How much were they. I'll need more tyres before Abbeville and am wondering whether just to go for R888s again.

 

[IanHighfield]

Read with interest, and close to me given my recent car building activity.

First off, no way on earth I would spend near £60K on the JZM car, even if I had that money - for me that reads future depreciation of a heavy figure.

Jason raised a good point. I built a very nice 73 'correct 2.7 Carrera Engined' RS Themed car that with another say 10K would have been a very pukka 73RS Rep at about 25% of the value of the real thing. Phil has just sold one on DDK for £50K against a real lightweight cost of £200K+

So that means that on a similar basis, a 964RS lightweight or NGT replica would have to be £15K - £25K and as Des says, No Way that can be done - for a good Replica.

What makes a good / true replica you ask - year of shell, non sunroof, LSD, Correct or Modern Suspension, Brakes, interior trim etc. etc. ----- correct SM wheels and alloy hood and seats etc. ------ No Way that can be built so just buy an original if you can afford to. But drive it like Hugh and it will wear out - felt like 110% full on to me

So a fast road / track focused RS 'themed' car is a great compromise. Not the real thing, but at £30K a really good driving pleasure to be enjoyed with modest depreciation only. Funny that, as that is where I am heading.

Be warned, as so many have learned....buy the very best base car you can as it will be cheaper in the long run. Repairing common 964 rust spots and painting will cost a lot more than paying a bit extra to start with. I paid more than 'average' for my car, and the only regret is that it has the sunroof, but that could be addressed in future if really needed. Vic knows the previous owner and it had a lot spent on it at Jaz in Wembley. No rust, great paint, 70K full history with strong engine, spare Cup Replicas and every bill and MOT from new - RS Bilstein / Eibach suspension with factory RS ARBs and rear adjusters to get the extra -ve camber plus RS rear bumper section. I can go RS Touring, Lightweight or NGT homage / theme / evocation and have a great car to drive.....but it will never be an RS or described as one, as that simply is not possible for anything other than real RS money.

Now one day when true RS prices are £200K, and you can build a replica for £50K, then it would be worth doing and you would get your money back as well, as is proven with the 73RS replicas.

Just my 2c

So who is going to buy the RS Project Base advertised at Specialist Cars in Malton - LHD, LSD, Non Sunroof and great in Midnight Blue ????

Ian

 

[Steve Brookes]

ORIGINAL: h_____

I read elsewhere steve that it was a very different day on Saturday. Oulton is a great circuit to drive, but a car killer when it goes wrong. Caution is definately the best approach. Did the MPSCs get better? How much were they. I'll need more tyres before Abbeville and am wondering whether just to go for R888s again.

The set of cups came from one of the PCGB race teams. Only half worn tread depth wise but obviously will have had a much harder life after coming off a race car. However at £250 for the set it seemed like a good idea to give them a go. They took a lot longer to warm up than the toyos. When warm they felt as grippy as the toyos but no better. However, I don't know whether I found the right pressures for them. The toyos seem less critical for pressure (for my driving). At 34 hot I was losing the back end all the time. At 32 hot they were a bit better but still needed at least 2 laps before the grip came. On the advice of the guys there (Kev, Paul, John, Melv) I dropped to 30 hot but only got a couple of laps on a damp track before the morning was cut short due to an accident. And then the rain came and decided that I wouldn't risk seeing how they coped with a wet track.

So in summary, I didn't find them any better than toyos but maybe that's because the cups were way past their best due to too many heat cycles (fronts felt sticky when warm but the rears always seemed hard)?

 

[carreraboy]

Pretty spot on Ian, you can build one hell of a Track Car come RS "Optik" as The Germans say, just look at at all those RS "Optik" on Mobile.de! Oh and the prices!

 

[Steve Brookes]

ORIGINAL: IanHighfield

So who is going to buy the RS Project Base advertised at Specialist Cars in Malton - LHD, LSD, Non Sunroof and great in Midnight Blue ????

That's my friend Andrew's old car. Needs a bit of tidying up but as you say, an ideal project car. I know it won't be Des that buys it. []

 

[Talat]

ORIGINAL: Steve Brookes

ORIGINAL: IanHighfield

So who is going to buy the RS Project Base advertised at Specialist Cars in Malton - LHD, LSD, Non Sunroof and great in Midnight Blue ????

That's my friend Andrew's old car. Needs a bit of tidying up but as you say, an ideal project car. I know it won't be Des that buys it. []

I thought Des bought Andrews's car. Isn't the SCOM car the same car that they had a few months ago ? I tried to buy it back then but they didn't appear to want to sell it to me - I suspect they want whoever buys it to get them to do all the work for them.

 

[Steve Brookes]

ORIGINAL: Talat

ORIGINAL: Steve Brookes

ORIGINAL: IanHighfield

So who is going to buy the RS Project Base advertised at Specialist Cars in Malton - LHD, LSD, Non Sunroof and great in Midnight Blue ????

That's my friend Andrew's old car. Needs a bit of tidying up but as you say, an ideal project car. I know it won't be Des that buys it. []

I thought Des bought Andrews's car. Isn't the SCOM car the same car that they had a few months ago ? I tried to buy it back then but they didn't appear to want to sell it to me - I suspect they want whoever buys it to get them to do all the work for them.

You should have been quicker off the mark mate and bought it from Andrew....it's not going to be cheap now that it's at SCOM. I nearly bought it myself but Mrs B gave me a clip round the lughole when I mentioned the idea []

 

[IanHighfield]

I asked SCOM and they will sell as is for £20K - too pricey for me as a base, but great start as a 92MY with LHD, non sunroof and LSD - but it will have power steering so not correct for LHD RS look-a-like

All depends on the body / mechanicals. Ask Andrew who is doing the Red car - nice bodywork and repaint at 65 hours (capped) - that could make a £20K very expensive once done, but if no issues then a good place to start ?

Ian

 

[IanHighfield]

has anyone considered this one at Castello Cars near Warwick ?

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2188102.htm

£32K so in the build cost area (or more as it is a 3.8)

Looks very nice

Ian

 

[colin129]

ORIGINAL: Steve Brookes

Here's your project car Hugh:

964C2 for sale in Northern Ireland

...but get yer skates on while it's at that price []

Have seen the size of the engine on that thing? [&:]

Type/Year:1991 Porsche 911 964
Price:£11995
Miles:70000
Location:Antrim

Colour:grey metallic
Engine Size:36000Fuel Typeetrol
Transmission:Manual 5 speed

 

[Talat]

ORIGINAL: Steve Brookes

ORIGINAL: Talat

ORIGINAL: Steve Brookes

ORIGINAL: IanHighfield

So who is going to buy the RS Project Base advertised at Specialist Cars in Malton - LHD, LSD, Non Sunroof and great in Midnight Blue ????

That's my friend Andrew's old car. Needs a bit of tidying up but as you say, an ideal project car. I know it won't be Des that buys it. []

I thought Des bought Andrews's car. Isn't the SCOM car the same car that they had a few months ago ? I tried to buy it back then but they didn't appear to want to sell it to me - I suspect they want whoever buys it to get them to do all the work for them.

You should have been quicker off the mark mate and bought it from Andrew....it's not going to be cheap now that it's at SCOM. I nearly bought it myself but Mrs B gave me a clip round the lughole when I mentioned the idea []

Sorry mate I'm not talking about Andrews car but another similar car that they had around last summer time. That car needed a top-end rebuild at the time and I asked them if I could buy it as is - they said they'd get back to me but never did.

If I was 964-less when Andrew had decided to sell his then I would have bought it straight away

 

[Talat]

ORIGINAL: IanHighfield

has anyone considered this one at Castello Cars near Warwick ?

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2188102.htm

£32K so in the build cost area (or more as it is a 3.8)

Looks very nice

Ian

If it was a bit cheaper then I'd consider it so that I could pinch the engine

 

[h_____]

ORIGINAL: Steve Brookes

They took a lot longer to warm up than the toyos. When warm they felt as grippy as the toyos but no better. However, I don't know whether I found the right pressures for them. The toyos seem less critical for pressure (for my driving). At 34 hot I was losing the back end all the time. At 32 hot they were a bit better but still needed at least 2 laps before the grip came. On the advice of the guys there (Kev, Paul, John, Melv) I dropped to 30 hot but only got a couple of laps on a damp track before the morning was cut short due to an accident. And then the rain came and decided that I wouldn't risk seeing how they coped with a wet track.

Interesting, I dont think the R888s are as sensitive to tyre pressures, First couple of session my tyres were at 20 - 23psi cant say I really noticed the difference! Or maybe thats just me.

Anyway back to topic......its a good thread this. I'm not talking about a REPLICA, but a track focussed car in the spirit of the RS, so light, good handling, good brakes and a sweet balance without a huge horsepower. Going to be lot of fun, for good value, and you'll be able to use it fully. I know some of you are doing this, its good watch, keep us posted.

 

[IanHighfield]

Hugh - I could see you in that Castello Cars 3.8 engined beast, and for less than a third of the price of an NGT

Whilst on the subject of track focused / RS type look-a-likes (Opiks for Herr Des) - does anyone use monoball top strut mounts for front and / or rear. If so, which ones and does anyone have any pukka Porsche RS ones ?

I have new wishbones with stiff RS bushes, correct RS uprights and hubs and RS front and rear calipers ready to be cleaned, painted and installed.

I only want to do the fit and alignment once so want to get everything first before lifting a spanner in anger.

Ian

 

[h_____]

Yep, I definately would like to have crack in the castello car, although I like my cars light, rather than powerful. I'd have to take out the stereo, carpet, AC, deal with the sunroof, bonnet, probably before it wiould hit the mark.

That said, that wouldnt be really that expensive to do would it?

[]

 

[Steve Brookes]

Accoring to the PH ad the green one is now under offer.