Buy this or an RS?

[Steve Brookes]

If I had the choice of spending £58,900 on this:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2570290.htm

......I think I would put the money into a 964RS instead []

 

[RSGulp]

Looks fun and, at first glance, well executed - but big money too...

 

[h_____]

I would guess this is far prettier than a 60k RS, but could be wrong. It's clearly as a good as restored car. I'd put my money in an RS (Oh I did!). But a well exectuted C2 RS rep is probably going to be faster, and as much fun.

Check out the orange one on pistonheads for 20k add 20k of suspension on brake modes (it already has the KWs), and you've got a 40k replica that is probably everybit of a 60-70k RS, and probably will hold (most of ) its cash? And you get a fun project thrown in.

And (yes more ands), you can treat it like a C2 - i.e. drive the nuts off it. One of the biggest challenges with using RSs these days is that nobody wants to damage them, therefore you need to keep a margin when driving them. That makes Reps and tuned/track focussed C2s (like this one) worth the effort.

PS: thanks for the tea Steve- its a great service you run.

 

[Steve Brookes]

What I can't understand about this one (and hence the reason for posting it) is how on earth can it be worth that sort of money? [&:]

OK it's a wide body and presumably has no sign of rust anywhere but the list of modifications can be found, more or less, on a number of modified C2s that have had money lavished upon them. Yet the money spent is never re-couped come sale time. A similarly modified C2, including the freshly rebuilt engine and comprehensive body work restoration has a market value of just over a third of the asking price of this one.

That's why I'm scratching my head about it. Maybe the price has got something to do with the advertised mileage of 4,650 miles? However, something tells me that this could be just the mileage since it was done up and is not the total mileage since registration (the ad certainly doesn't play the low mileage card in the text).

Perhaps someone knows why this is a particularly special 964 at a special price?

 

[Sifly]

I think this is the car that was in one of the Porsche Mags a year or so ago. If so, it was a 964 Celebration that an independent Porsche dealer took in Part-Exchange. He then decided to strip it and build a track focused wide bodied car!

 

[carreraboy]

ORIGINAL: h_____

I would guess this is far prettier than a 60k RS, but could be wrong.  It's clearly as a good as restored car.  I'd put my money in an RS (Oh I did!). But a well exectuted C2 RS rep is probably going to be faster, and as much fun.

Check out the orange one on pistonheads for 20k add 20k of suspension on brake modes (it already has the KWs), and you've got a 40k replica that is probably everybit of a 60-70k RS, and probably will hold (most of ) its cash? And you get a fun project thrown in.

And (yes more ands), you can treat it like a C2 - i.e. drive the nuts off it.  One of the biggest challenges with using RSs these days is that nobody wants to damage them, therefore you need to keep a margin when driving them.  That makes Reps and tuned/track focussed C2s (like this one) worth the effort.

PS: thanks for the tea Steve- its a great service you run.

£40k will never replicate an RS ....... yes agree will go a long way to produce something incredibly good and feel LIKE one, but totally replicate that would be a back to shell, engine gearbox, suspension, electrics, steering rack, Carrera 4 pressure boost sytem, magnesiums, bla bla blah .... looking nearer £60K so no brainer if you can still buy the real thing ..... Plus sourcing a good C2 LHD, manual, non sunroof with LSD ..... hard to find ....

The green car above is RHD! Does it or did it have a sunroof .... LSD?

 

[nwates99]

Agree with you all seems well overpriced . Would put that money into a very good 964 RS or a Mint 964 Turbo

 

[h_____]

OK, I agree to replicate will cost more, but to build a car in the same spirit, using more modern components, I think you can get close for the money. The Orange car on PH has had the cosmetics done (and its a non-sunroof car RHD though), You've already got KWs, stick on some nice light alloys (Heck I run mine around on MMs - thanks again Steve!! those wheels were a bargain). Sort the rear suspension so you can run RS ride geo and height. Sort the brakes. Lose some weight, add a cage (bolt in would be fine), and I think you will have a close to an RS experience on track, in fact is probably going to be even faster! And I'm sure you'd be 95% there in terms of feel, for 70% of the cost, I'm not sure you'd lose too much money on it either.

I know it will never be quite the same as an RS, and wont hold value quite like an RS, but I think it can make sense.

 

[carreraboy]

Hugh you been on the secret cooking sherry or has that big drive in Minty stirred your brains mate[]

The orange car is red unless I'm mistaken and it's a C4, but agree a good little project to make it even more RS like .... can see where you are coming from, making the perfect 964 Track Car, is where you are heading and NOT a replica RS. Many of us have later upgrades to engine and suspension, think that's allowed, and there are those who want their car absolutely orginal factory standard, as original is seen as where the future money is, which is correct if you already have a totally original car. I think you are keeping Minty original, it goes great really enjoyed the laps round Oulton.

Having stripped out a lightweight myself on an original RS M002, I can't wait to see if it gives the same sensation on full track hammer, sure it will .... I just missed that N-GT feel, 500 mile road trip at the weekend has confirmed this!

 

[h_____]

ITS A C4!!!! How did I miss that!!! That's killed a great project in my head.....

..anyway, yes maybe I've been on the Sherry. and with out a doubt, Minty is a keeper and will stay 100% original. However, if anything Friday shows that the car just asks for more, but you kind of have to hold back a little bit. I know I'd drive a C2 "RS alike" harder than I drive Minty, and think that would be rewarding in its own way.

I guess what I'm saying is I can understand the appeal of spending 40K on RS replica or modern interpritation of an RS from the base of a C2. Despite owning an original car, that I would want to keep that way.

...ok more sherry please []

 

[Steve Brookes]

ORIGINAL: h_____

..anyway, yes maybe I've been on the Sherry. and with out a doubt, Minty is a keeper and will stay 100% original. However, if anything Friday shows that the car just asks for more, but you kind of have to hold back a little bit. I know I'd drive a C2 "RS alike" harder than I drive Minty, and think that would be rewarding in its own way.

It was surreal seeing minty on Saturday morning on the road as you were on the way home as I was going to the circuit....our flash of lights sort of indicated a changing of the guard []

Unfortunately Saturday turned into a frustrating morning with multiple red flags caused by badly prepared cars (obviously not Porsches) breaking down on circuit. The frustration was further compounded by problems with part worn MPSCs (bought from a race team) that I was trying out for the first time. They took an age to heat up and would still let go at the rear with very little warning (much more suddenly than Toyos)....I think Kevin, who was passengering one time, was quite surprised at how sideways it go through Hissie's [8D]. But not as surprised as I was at myself that I corrected it and kept it going in the right direction []

 

[andrew_churcher]

I have been researching the costs to turn a C2 into an RS rep given mine was already on somewhat on the way at purchase.

If I stick to the bodywork I am getting done at present + KWv3's + brake upgrade (big reds) = £24.5k (including cost of car which was circa £16k for a clean C2 coupe when i bought it mid last year)

If i also add in a full engine rebuild (stock - nothing fancy - top and bottom end at Redtek) + rs clutch and flywheel = £7kish or £24.5k+7.5k = £31-32k

So i actually think you build a pretty good RS rep for about £30k-£35k depending on the base cars bodywork and engine condition. Obviously u can spend more but still....another £20k+ until you reach £58k.

 

[carreraboy]

Don't want to p88s on the parade here, but are we talking RS Replica or more track focussed Carrer2/4.



THAT IS THE QUESTION?

Because if the answer is a REPLICA there is NO No no no way it can be done for that money.

Sorry ...... but yes you can build a great car for £40K which might handle better than standard 964RS the word here is standard, and maybe out perform a STADARD, that word again 964RS .... but you will find the vast majority of us here do not have standard 964RS, we have inherited the bas**rd childs of others, but trying to give them a good life and treat them with gentle and care ...... but if you have a completeky standard 964RS keep it standard ... BECAUSE they will increase slightly more than the others ..... [][]

 

[colin129]

ORIGINAL: Steve Brookes

If I had the choice of spending £58,900 on this:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2570290.htm

......I think I would put the money into a 964RS instead []

The problem, for me, with that car is that, assuming the mileage is correct, you couldn't actually drive it as that would destroy the value.

An RS with, say, 60K on the clock can be driven 3-5K a year and retain its value, in fact the way values are going possibly appreciate.. If you run that car for 3 or 4 years and it has 20k + on the clock, its worth half what you paid for it.

A highly modified track optimised C2 with 'average' miles, say 100K, would be a cheaper and better ownership proposition.

 

[Talat]

Well mine will be seam welded to RS specs and will have an RS steering rack. I'll let you all know the approximate costs when it's all said and done - I know for a fact it'll be a damn sight cheaper than the above JZM car.

 

[carreraboy]

ORIGINAL: colin129

ORIGINAL: Steve Brookes

If I had the choice of spending £58,900 on this:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2570290.htm

......I think I would put the money into a 964RS instead []

The problem, for me, with that car is that, assuming the mileage is correct, you couldn't actually drive it as that would destroy the value.

An RS with, say, 60K on the clock can be driven 3-5K a year and retain its value, in fact the way values are going possibly appreciate.. If you run that car for 3 or 4 years and it has 20k + on the clock, its worth half what you paid for it.

A highly modified track optimised C2 with 'average' miles, say 100K, would be a cheaper and better ownership proposition.

Mon Dieu .... has there been a BOGOF at Aldi on the cooking Sherry ..... []

 

[colin129]

ORIGINAL: carreraboy

ORIGINAL: colin129

ORIGINAL: Steve Brookes

If I had the choice of spending £58,900 on this:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2570290.htm

......I think I would put the money into a 964RS instead []

The problem, for me, with that car is that, assuming the mileage is correct, you couldn't actually drive it as that would destroy the value.

An RS with, say, 60K on the clock can be driven 3-5K a year and retain its value, in fact the way values are going possibly appreciate.. If you run that car for 3 or 4 years and it has 20k + on the clock, its worth half what you paid for it.

A highly modified track optimised C2 with 'average' miles, say 100K, would be a cheaper and better ownership proposition.

Mon Dieu .... has there been a BOGOF at Aldi on the cooking Sherry ..... []

So what are you saying exactly?

That putting miles on that low mileage car from JZM wouldn't destroy the value?

That a lightly used RS wouldn't retain its value?

Or that a track optimised higher mileage C2 wouldn't make a better ownership proposition than the JZM car on the basis that it would be cheaper to create and you'd actually be able to use it without destroying its value?

I've not said anything about an RS replica vs the real thing, I'm talking about the above 3 options...

 

[Steve Brookes]

ORIGINAL: h_____

ITS A C4!!!! How did I miss that!!! That's killed a great project in my head.....

Here's your project car Hugh:

964C2 for sale in Northern Ireland

...but get yer skates on while it's at that price []

 

[carreraboy]

ORIGINAL: colin129

ORIGINAL: carreraboy

ORIGINAL: colin129

ORIGINAL: Steve Brookes

If I had the choice of spending £58,900 on this:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2570290.htm

......I think I would put the money into a 964RS instead []

The problem, for me, with that car is that, assuming the mileage is correct, you couldn't actually drive it as that would destroy the value.

An RS with, say, 60K on the clock can be driven 3-5K a year and retain its value, in fact the way values are going possibly appreciate.. If you run that car for 3 or 4 years and it has 20k + on the clock, its worth half what you paid for it.

A highly modified track optimised C2 with 'average' miles, say 100K, would be a cheaper and better ownership proposition.

Mon Dieu .... has there been a BOGOF at Aldi on the cooking Sherry ..... []

So what are you saying exactly?

That putting miles on that low mileage car from JZM wouldn't destroy the value?

That a lightly used RS wouldn't retain its value?

Or that a track optimised higher mileage C2 wouldn't make a better ownership proposition than the JZM car on the basis that it would be cheaper to create and you'd actually be able to use it without destroying its value?

I've not said anything about an RS replica vs the real thing, I'm talking about the above 3 options...

If your question is for me .....

I would safely say the JZM or any track based derivative copy, replica etc WILL depreciate without doubt, god knows where this kind of nonsense sprung from[]

Any 964RS put miles on it or not WILL appreciate ..... more cooking sherry[]

 

[Steve Brookes]

I don't think anyone is saying an RS-alike, C2 track car or whatever else you want to call it (but not an RS replica because the parts and labour cost to make a complete and true replica is huge and somewhat pointless), is a better proposition than buying an RS. They/we/I are saying that building the RS-alike/C2 track car/etc is a better proposition than buying the JZM car. Neither, from what I can see, are they saying that building such a car will bring them financial reward....they are saying that it will bring them enjoyment at a lower cost than buying an RS (especially those of us who are not well heeled enough to buy an RS).

The JZM car seems to have been priced after working out the sum of the parts and labour and therefore is totally unrealistic. Which brings us back to the original point that spending £60K on a 964 track car that is merely the sum of the parts or on a 964RS that is the real deal, is pretty much a no-brainer. []

hic! []