Bought from 911 Virgin ??
- Thread starter alane
- Start date
Guest
New member
I bought my 3.2 Carrera from them just over a year ago and was very pleased with them.
I can only talk from my experience, they were very easy to deal with and for a first time buyer, as I was, made the whole experience feel like I wasn't taking a huge risk.
I looked at lots of cars both dealer and private and eventually bought mine on the 911 Virgin cheap price then got it seen at Northways which seemed like a good compromise.
Hope my experience helps in some way !!
]
I can only talk from my experience, they were very easy to deal with and for a first time buyer, as I was, made the whole experience feel like I wasn't taking a huge risk.
I looked at lots of cars both dealer and private and eventually bought mine on the 911 Virgin cheap price then got it seen at Northways which seemed like a good compromise.
Hope my experience helps in some way !!![
]
engleflick
New member
Hi Alane,
I haven't bought a car, from these guys but I have bought some parts they had for sale (seats & fuchs alloys) they seem very helpful and courteous . The setup they have is very good and they certainly know their onions about the cars they had for sale & when I get permission from my wife to buy my another 911, I will definately give them a call. I hope this helps in you descion making.
I haven't bought a car, from these guys but I have bought some parts they had for sale (seats & fuchs alloys) they seem very helpful and courteous . The setup they have is very good and they certainly know their onions about the cars they had for sale & when I get permission from my wife to buy my another 911, I will definately give them a call. I hope this helps in you descion making.
Martin Perry
New member
Alane
I bought my '82 Targa from them in Feb. this year. Was impressed. They were pleased to take time to go over the car carefully, and also seemed interested in what my ideas and expectations were.
They were also honest enough to say 'look this is an old car and there will be lots wrong with it but for this money it's as good a 911 as you will expect to get'. It is my first 911, and so far it seems as if they were right.
I went for the 'Bug' price, i.e. less that full retail and you take your chances. However, I bought a good warranty from them (at least it looks good but I haven't had to claim yet) for some peace of mind.
Good luck
Martin
I bought my '82 Targa from them in Feb. this year. Was impressed. They were pleased to take time to go over the car carefully, and also seemed interested in what my ideas and expectations were.
They were also honest enough to say 'look this is an old car and there will be lots wrong with it but for this money it's as good a 911 as you will expect to get'. It is my first 911, and so far it seems as if they were right.
I went for the 'Bug' price, i.e. less that full retail and you take your chances. However, I bought a good warranty from them (at least it looks good but I haven't had to claim yet) for some peace of mind.
Good luck
Martin
911_turbo
New member
When I was looking for a car, I found one that exactly matched my requirements on the 911virgin website so I gave them a call. I found the chap that I spoke to, both abrasive and condescending. He totally put me off going to see the car; I thought that if this guy speaks to me like this when he's trying to sell me a car, just imagine what he's going to be like if I go back with any problems!!
I ended up buying a similar car elsewhere but later heard they are quite good guys. However, by that time, it was too late and they had lost the sale. I wouldn't be surprised if mine was not the first sale that they've lost for this reason. First impressions really do count and most salesmen are aware of this!
I ended up buying a similar car elsewhere but later heard they are quite good guys. However, by that time, it was too late and they had lost the sale. I wouldn't be surprised if mine was not the first sale that they've lost for this reason. First impressions really do count and most salesmen are aware of this!
Mrkjblue
New member
Yes brought mine from there, might go back if they have a car that's a great buy.
My story's nothing major strange attitude from the salesman didn't really seem to bothered, Was told it such a straight car they hadn't even needed to clean it when I asked why the engine was warm for the test drive was told he had only drove it from the hose after its wash up J actually he got quite annoyed that we should ask such questions.
Asked him to fix the horn before pickup and was assured it would be done, but wasn't because the salesmans "not very good mechanically"
The tank was totally empty I found out why a few days later when I saw the petrol dripping from the rusted through tank on to my drive, why this wasn't picked up on the PPI is another story.
"Look this is an old car and there will be lots wrong with it but for this money it's as good a 911 as you will expect to get".
LOL I got this patter as well. Yes they are old cars but no there shouldn't be lots wrong with them, we are not paying old ford escort money the previous owners should have kept up with maintenance as we would.
"I found the chap that I spoke to, both abrasive and condescending."
Once again I'm afraid I have to agree.
"I can only talk from my experience, they were very easy to deal with and for a first time buyer, as I was, made the whole experience feel like I wasn't taking a huge risk.
I looked at lots of cars both dealer and private and eventually bought mine on the 911 Virgin cheap price"
Sorry Tiggy but if they made buying a second hand old 911 with no warranty seem like you weren't taking a huge risk then they shouldn't have because it is.
I brought mine the same way and had it checked at JZ machtec but was fully aware of the risks.
I wouldn't say don't go as I feel I got a good deal and looking at there website the cars are reasonably priced and there not nasty people, just the usall car salesman patter nothing more nothing less.
I suppose what I am saying is it's the car your buying not the service get it inspected by a good known garage like northways and just ignore everything else.
My story's nothing major strange attitude from the salesman didn't really seem to bothered, Was told it such a straight car they hadn't even needed to clean it when I asked why the engine was warm for the test drive was told he had only drove it from the hose after its wash up J actually he got quite annoyed that we should ask such questions.
Asked him to fix the horn before pickup and was assured it would be done, but wasn't because the salesmans "not very good mechanically"
The tank was totally empty I found out why a few days later when I saw the petrol dripping from the rusted through tank on to my drive, why this wasn't picked up on the PPI is another story.
"Look this is an old car and there will be lots wrong with it but for this money it's as good a 911 as you will expect to get".
LOL I got this patter as well. Yes they are old cars but no there shouldn't be lots wrong with them, we are not paying old ford escort money the previous owners should have kept up with maintenance as we would.
"I found the chap that I spoke to, both abrasive and condescending."
Once again I'm afraid I have to agree.
"I can only talk from my experience, they were very easy to deal with and for a first time buyer, as I was, made the whole experience feel like I wasn't taking a huge risk.
I looked at lots of cars both dealer and private and eventually bought mine on the 911 Virgin cheap price"
Sorry Tiggy but if they made buying a second hand old 911 with no warranty seem like you weren't taking a huge risk then they shouldn't have because it is.
I brought mine the same way and had it checked at JZ machtec but was fully aware of the risks.
I wouldn't say don't go as I feel I got a good deal and looking at there website the cars are reasonably priced and there not nasty people, just the usall car salesman patter nothing more nothing less.
I suppose what I am saying is it's the car your buying not the service get it inspected by a good known garage like northways and just ignore everything else.
Guest
New member
Maybe I just got lucky !
Mike at Northways gave the car a clean bill of health and said I paid about the right money for it.
Having not done too much mechanically since the late 70's on my Triumph Herald then I felt that asking an independant like Northways was the best way. After all they don't really have any axe to grind irrespective of weather its a good example or a mongrel !!
Mike at Northways gave the car a clean bill of health and said I paid about the right money for it.
Having not done too much mechanically since the late 70's on my Triumph Herald then I felt that asking an independant like Northways was the best way. After all they don't really have any axe to grind irrespective of weather its a good example or a mongrel !!
Guest
New member
Hi everyone,
I like these kinds of threads a lot because they are so helpful to the newcomers (like me!). With regard to servicing and "getting things done",I think it's really important to keep up opinions on dealers and service agents etc because it's such a crucial part of owning an SC, if you can't do everything yourself.
I've just bought my SC and despite the best efforts of PPI expert Trevor Messitt, there's still plenty to do on the car. I've already discovered heater problems (that I knew about on purchase) and gearbox and alternator problems (that I had an inkling about but the full extent has been a bit of a shock!). It's so crucial to me that I find the best possible people to work on the car, and I am prepared to try a few different people too.
It's so difficult as well to know how fairly/professionally you are being treated if you are not an expert yourself. Some of the responses above are really horrific. How do these guys that are this rude or incompetent fail to see that what they are doing makes the worst business sense ever, as witnessed by the fact that they have ended up on here.
The tricky part I guess is when you find someone good to look after the car, but they are still trying to run a business and make moolah! The grey areas (like I've got on my car) such as the alternator discharging the battery. Do I let my current service agent (Chelsea Carrera, who by the way seem good but it's early days and I may be paying "Central London Prices" to a small degree) get me an aftermarket one for £280, a Porsche one is I understand closer to £400 or do I go for a rebuild? The agent strongly advises that a rebuild will rarely not go wrong down the line... Or my gearbox: It crunches between second and first on changedown. Now it is clearly relatively easy to adapt driving style to avoid this change, and it is clearly an "in town" problem anyway. When the time comes that I can't live with it, what do I do? Go for a gearbox stripdown for first and second only? Then you have that problem where the service agent takes a look at the other gears and gives you an opinion on whether they need attention, and the cost effectiveness of replacing them at the same time. Clearly the level of honesty and financial consideration that the agent attaches to what he tells you at this point is so crucial to the decision you make. This is at the heart of why I think it's so important to talk about good experiences/bad experiences etc. It can make such a difference to others' pleasure at owning an SC!
Sorry if I hijacked this thread away from the dealer/seller angle to the servicing side but I think it's all fairly interconnected...
I like these kinds of threads a lot because they are so helpful to the newcomers (like me!). With regard to servicing and "getting things done",I think it's really important to keep up opinions on dealers and service agents etc because it's such a crucial part of owning an SC, if you can't do everything yourself.
I've just bought my SC and despite the best efforts of PPI expert Trevor Messitt, there's still plenty to do on the car. I've already discovered heater problems (that I knew about on purchase) and gearbox and alternator problems (that I had an inkling about but the full extent has been a bit of a shock!). It's so crucial to me that I find the best possible people to work on the car, and I am prepared to try a few different people too.
It's so difficult as well to know how fairly/professionally you are being treated if you are not an expert yourself. Some of the responses above are really horrific. How do these guys that are this rude or incompetent fail to see that what they are doing makes the worst business sense ever, as witnessed by the fact that they have ended up on here.
The tricky part I guess is when you find someone good to look after the car, but they are still trying to run a business and make moolah! The grey areas (like I've got on my car) such as the alternator discharging the battery. Do I let my current service agent (Chelsea Carrera, who by the way seem good but it's early days and I may be paying "Central London Prices" to a small degree) get me an aftermarket one for £280, a Porsche one is I understand closer to £400 or do I go for a rebuild? The agent strongly advises that a rebuild will rarely not go wrong down the line... Or my gearbox: It crunches between second and first on changedown. Now it is clearly relatively easy to adapt driving style to avoid this change, and it is clearly an "in town" problem anyway. When the time comes that I can't live with it, what do I do? Go for a gearbox stripdown for first and second only? Then you have that problem where the service agent takes a look at the other gears and gives you an opinion on whether they need attention, and the cost effectiveness of replacing them at the same time. Clearly the level of honesty and financial consideration that the agent attaches to what he tells you at this point is so crucial to the decision you make. This is at the heart of why I think it's so important to talk about good experiences/bad experiences etc. It can make such a difference to others' pleasure at owning an SC!
Sorry if I hijacked this thread away from the dealer/seller angle to the servicing side but I think it's all fairly interconnected...
Guest
New member
Gearbox crunching on 2-1 downchange with the car in motion is perfectly normal for a 915 box, if I remember. My friend's 1984 3.2 did this. You learn to only change down when completely stationary.
As for Henners (Henry, the proprietor of 911virgin), he has his good points and bad points. The good things are that has carved a niche in a competitive market by dealing in a certain type of Porsche, he doesn't appear to be greedy as his mark ups are low (pile em high sell em cheap), his website gets updated regularly and he has a fantastic sense of humour. His posts on pistonheads are hilarious, even if often for the wrong reasons ;-) Lots of charisma. HOWEVER, his cars are often cheap for a reason, he is mates with JZ (so I would personally get someone else to inspect, as a precaution, not that I am questioning their integrity), he can be quite rude and arrogant on the phone (cold call him and ask the mileage of one of his cars and you'll get the works, hehe), he doesn't like 'testing questions' and he won't allow test drives.
In short, Henry is a CHARACTER and it is good to have him on the scene.
As with all used car salesmen, though, buyer always beware. Buy the best condition car for the budget you can afford and get an inspection.
Rgds
Dom
As for Henners (Henry, the proprietor of 911virgin), he has his good points and bad points. The good things are that has carved a niche in a competitive market by dealing in a certain type of Porsche, he doesn't appear to be greedy as his mark ups are low (pile em high sell em cheap), his website gets updated regularly and he has a fantastic sense of humour. His posts on pistonheads are hilarious, even if often for the wrong reasons ;-) Lots of charisma. HOWEVER, his cars are often cheap for a reason, he is mates with JZ (so I would personally get someone else to inspect, as a precaution, not that I am questioning their integrity), he can be quite rude and arrogant on the phone (cold call him and ask the mileage of one of his cars and you'll get the works, hehe), he doesn't like 'testing questions' and he won't allow test drives.
In short, Henry is a CHARACTER and it is good to have him on the scene.
As with all used car salesmen, though, buyer always beware. Buy the best condition car for the budget you can afford and get an inspection.
Rgds
Dom
Guest
New member
Alex
Rebuild the alternator, it will be fine if you have it done somewhere reputable, have had rebuilds last longer than original parts.
Crunching between gears is wear to the synchros and most fast cars will show signs of it sooner or later, it is not how they should be but as I say, it can often be seen on well-used cars which might be what Domster means. The car should drop into 1st with no noise whilst on the move. It can be worked around, try sympathetic slow changes as the car is rolling, see if you can 'find the teeth' or try double declutching and see if that works, used to help on my old 5 turbo. Once you are used to the car you will probably find that you use first gear very little in any case as you can trickle along in second with no problems. Only way to sort it is gearbox rebuild, we have some numbers for gearbox people, will email them to you - last big gearbox I had rebuilt was £650, will be a bit more on your car, plus the cost of getting it in and out. Learn to 'manage' it until it is impossible and then go for the rebuild if you still have the car - it might not deteriorate any further if you respect the problem, you never know.
We will meet up somewhere sometime in the future and you can have a drive of my car which is a pretty tight SC with a rebuilt box, see what you make of the difference.
You are finally in the car mate, these problems are not the end of the world, hope you are still enjoying yourself!
Cheers, JG
Rebuild the alternator, it will be fine if you have it done somewhere reputable, have had rebuilds last longer than original parts.
Crunching between gears is wear to the synchros and most fast cars will show signs of it sooner or later, it is not how they should be but as I say, it can often be seen on well-used cars which might be what Domster means. The car should drop into 1st with no noise whilst on the move. It can be worked around, try sympathetic slow changes as the car is rolling, see if you can 'find the teeth' or try double declutching and see if that works, used to help on my old 5 turbo. Once you are used to the car you will probably find that you use first gear very little in any case as you can trickle along in second with no problems. Only way to sort it is gearbox rebuild, we have some numbers for gearbox people, will email them to you - last big gearbox I had rebuilt was £650, will be a bit more on your car, plus the cost of getting it in and out. Learn to 'manage' it until it is impossible and then go for the rebuild if you still have the car - it might not deteriorate any further if you respect the problem, you never know.
We will meet up somewhere sometime in the future and you can have a drive of my car which is a pretty tight SC with a rebuilt box, see what you make of the difference.
You are finally in the car mate, these problems are not the end of the world, hope you are still enjoying yourself!
Cheers, JG
Guest
New member
I like the 911virgin site, but rude and arrogant on the phone and no test drives? Not the best recommendation I have ever read. Obviously 911virgin are fully entitled to treat their customers how they want to but as they are still in business they must be doing something right.
Lots of people think traders are arrogant on the phone, but what customers and potential customers have to remember is that traders answer the same questions over the phone tens of times every day. People promise to turn up who never do, they say they are coming back with the money for a deposit and never do, they have you value their part exchange only to get a number from you so they can do a deal with someone else etc etc. One of your first lessons in the motor trade is that customers LIE, no surprise that some sellers are seemingly unapproachable at first sight.
For every 911 buyer there must be a minimum of 15 911 dreamers, so it's no wonder a high-profile operation like 911virgin don't try to sell to people over the phone. If you as a customer want to get the best treatment from a dealer then show some commitment - ring to see that the car is still there, verify the ad details over the phone and then go and see it. If you are far away then tell the seller, ask if you can make an appointment to see the car and drive it, give them your contact details and show you are serious. Once you have demonstrated that you are a real prospect, see how much commitment you can get from the seller. If he can't at least match your interest with decent details on history, condition, willingness for you to have the car inspected, and a decent test drive, then look elsewhere. There is always another car, another seller, another deal.
Yes, it would be nice if all salespeople answered the phone to you on top form, thinking that your call was the hottest sales tip to date, but 99% of phone calls to dealerships are a complete waste of time, so it's no wonder there's an amount of disillusionment at work sometimes.
As Kevin says it's the car that counts at the end of the day, he didn't buy a minter from them but would buy there again if the price was right. If the car is worth buying, then the most impressive muppetry this side of Sesame Street won't keep buyers away from it.
911_turbo
New member
Of course, car salesmen are only human and can have an off-days or get tired of answering the same questions or get tired of timewasters but ultimately, a salesman's job is to get sales and being polite to the customer goes with the territory!
I'm sure that they must be doing something right to still be in business but I wonder how much more successful they'd be if they treated people a little better?
One of the things that caught my eye was on their homepage. It says:
"911 virgins handled with care and dignity"
Reading the posts here and on other forums I feel that many would disagree and ultimately this would result in lost sales.
I think it's a shame because I have heard good things about them but this was only after they had not handled me "with care and dignity" and I had bought my car from someone else!
I'm sure that they must be doing something right to still be in business but I wonder how much more successful they'd be if they treated people a little better?
One of the things that caught my eye was on their homepage. It says:
"911 virgins handled with care and dignity"
Reading the posts here and on other forums I feel that many would disagree and ultimately this would result in lost sales.
I think it's a shame because I have heard good things about them but this was only after they had not handled me "with care and dignity" and I had bought my car from someone else!
Guest
New member
Amen Barry, my own m.o. has always been to treat people how I would like to be treated myself (the product of a Catholic upbringing!). Sold a Volvo estate recently and on the test drive the heater valve was leaking, the fuel light was glowing red, one of the back doors wouldn't unlock and the car wasn't the cleanest it had ever been. I told him I was going to do all these little jobs and he was happy to pay the (relatively high) asking price as I hadn't told any fibs and we had established a good relationship based on mutual respect.
Best way to do business is to underpromise and overdeliver, doing things the other way around is just too much like hard work. Sales is the best job in the world when you can generate a good result for both buyer and seller, very satisfying.
Guest
New member
It is true. I would have bought two cars off Henry in the past, but on both occasions his manner pushed me away - I like the comfort of a bit of customer service. However, Henry sells his cars cheaply, so he is very successful. You're buying the car, not the guy's hand in marriage - and he does make an effort with his free wagon wheels ;-). It would be worse if he was expensive and a bit rude on the phone, LOL. I suppose main dealers are sometimes the opposite: expensive but a bit smarmy.
I wouldn't particularly recommend Henry, but I wouldn't dissuade people either. Just always buy with your eyes open as any cheap Porsche MAY be cheap for a reason. I know some dealers who would put Henry's stock up for sale with twice the margin, and who would probably get it from an unsuspecting punter :-(
I wouldn't particularly recommend Henry, but I wouldn't dissuade people either. Just always buy with your eyes open as any cheap Porsche MAY be cheap for a reason. I know some dealers who would put Henry's stock up for sale with twice the margin, and who would probably get it from an unsuspecting punter :-(
Martin Perry
New member
The comments about Henry are interesting, and there is a kind of disclaimer about his behavior somewhere on the 911virgin website, not that this excuses anything of course.
I dealt with another guy who I gather was his brother, and was more then courteous. The 'handled with care and dignity' patter did apply as far as he was concerned.
I viewed by appointment on a weekday and was given a good 90 minutes of this guy's time. I picked the car up on a Saturday, a day on which they are clearly deluged by people, so don't expect to get the same time and attention if you visit then - I was dealt with that day by Henry's wife (I assume) who gave a perfectlycompetant run down on the car (my first 911) but who clearly didn't have the time that day to stand and chat!
How's your search going anyway alane?
Martin
I dealt with another guy who I gather was his brother, and was more then courteous. The 'handled with care and dignity' patter did apply as far as he was concerned.
I viewed by appointment on a weekday and was given a good 90 minutes of this guy's time. I picked the car up on a Saturday, a day on which they are clearly deluged by people, so don't expect to get the same time and attention if you visit then - I was dealt with that day by Henry's wife (I assume) who gave a perfectlycompetant run down on the car (my first 911) but who clearly didn't have the time that day to stand and chat!
How's your search going anyway alane?
Martin
Guest
New member
As a salesperson with over 6 years of direct selling experience albeit to large Corporates and Financial Institutions, I can confirm that the same basic rules apply. Politeness in particular costs nothing although even polite salesmen (I have never bought a car from a saleswoman so I can't comment) can put you off in the their pin stripe suits, gold watches and an overwhelming stench of 'Jazz' by Yves Saint Laurent!!!
On the subject of watches, I have noticed that luxury car salesman are very interested in what watch you are wearing. I would put money on it that certain marques train their salespeople to look for this as an obvious sign of wealth. Yes I have a nice watch and that might be why I was treated very nicely by my OPC. However, I know very wealthy people who don't care for watches and don't wear them. Should they be treated any differently by salespeople? I am not saying that watches are the main factor here but your appearance certainly plays a large part in how you are treated by salespeople. I also acknowledge that phone selling is a totally different ball game. Fact is, some are better at selling face to face and some are better over the phone.
At the end of the day, it all boils down to the individual you are dealing with. No matter what car (or other item) you are buying, if you are treated poorly by the first person you come into contact with (even the receptionist), I would argue that it is human nature to react to this in a negative way, and from the salespersons perspective, their job is immediately made more difficult.
In summary, it has been proven time and time again that buyers who have a good experience with a company from a sales perspective, are very likely to come back again.
Guest
New member
I paid them a visit (as a 911 virgin) and was attended to by Henry's brother, who was open and personable.
I left thinking they were OK but would always get the better of me in a deal, so I bought privately from an utterly charmless couple in Bicester. The deal was much better (up yours, Doctor X), assisted by a PPI from Peter Morgan.
911 Virgins will, in the end, take no prisoners. As the bro' was happy to point out, "when we buy, we will tell you everything that is wrong with the car. When we sell, then all cars of that age have clunky gearboxes/obvious paint repairs, etc.".
The boys want to make money. No crime in that, but there are alternatives and independent specialist advice (not the AA/RAC!) is available if you want to hang on to your chastity.
Sideways
I left thinking they were OK but would always get the better of me in a deal, so I bought privately from an utterly charmless couple in Bicester. The deal was much better (up yours, Doctor X), assisted by a PPI from Peter Morgan.
911 Virgins will, in the end, take no prisoners. As the bro' was happy to point out, "when we buy, we will tell you everything that is wrong with the car. When we sell, then all cars of that age have clunky gearboxes/obvious paint repairs, etc.".
The boys want to make money. No crime in that, but there are alternatives and independent specialist advice (not the AA/RAC!) is available if you want to hang on to your chastity.
Sideways
Guest
New member
I too looked at 911Virgin when I was looking for a 996 nearly 2 yrs ago - The gentleman on the phone was rather condescending and not particularly friendly, which I thought a little odd at the time. I thought that perhaps they just had an 'off day' (we all do) but went elsewhere.
I don't think I personally would approach them again - but if they had the right car, at the right price, why not I suppose?
I don't think I personally would approach them again - but if they had the right car, at the right price, why not I suppose?
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