bodyparts/improvements

[Globe_911]

Hi all,

Did a trackday in the S2 at Croft on Sat and came back with a large shopping list... We bought an S2 a while ago, did a few bits to it (braided hoses, yellowstuff pads, Toyo R888's, stripped with cage buckets and harnesses) and since then we've run it like that, it's running perfectly but seen as it's done it's last track day for the year and will be on stands for 10 months or so we're thinking it might be time to add a bit to it!

We've dropped an email to EMC to see what they recommend but the list is roughly as follows:

coilovers (Gaz) possibly polyflex bushes
brakes (recommendations?)

and then really just lightening it, it has a promax chip in so as far as engine work goes I don't believe there's a great deal to be gained from the engine?

As far as losing weight we were thinking a perspex rear hatch would be a huge difference (suppliers??) as would fibreglass bonnet and wings (again where's best to get these for a reasonable price?) and possibly perspex windows.

Also looked at losing the doorcards, is ther eanywhere that does pre-cut plastic door cards so we can get rid of all the internal/unnecessary bits

and anything else you would all recommend to make it a more serious track toy!

cheers!

 

[Cater_Racer]

Hi Globe,

We used www.lexan-windows.com

Did the rear hatch and side windows, fortunately I did have some advise from couple of boys in the series, so if you do go that route PM me first!

EMC don't recommend taking the rear-hatch out, but it is a big lump of weight, and we noticed the difference.

We've got KW3 coilovers, and re-indexed the rear torsion bars.... Massive difference.

Polybushed all over..... big difference.

and recambered the fronts...... Massive difference.

We cut plastic doorcards out of 3mm plastic sheet from B&Q, and sprayed the back with colour, that works fine:

Gerry

 

[edh]

The biggest improvements are going to be suspension/geo and brakes. You've probably got the easy weight out, the rest is incremental gains and is expensive - why bother for a trackday car?

Gaz will be great - KW's probably better quality but the v3 spring rates are a bit low for track use IMO. Gaz is also cheaper.

Loads of front camber will really help the turn in & kill understeer

Better pads will make braking so much more positive - Performance friction PF97 @ £100, PF08 £155 or Pagids at £200+ . Add in some hoses / ducting to keep it all cooler and you will see a big improvement. EMC will recommend m030 calipers & I'm sure it will save you tenths if you're racing - again why bother on a trackday car. It isn't a cheap upgrade.

Aside from all that, you'll get your biggest improvements from driver training - £450 spent on a day with Mike Wilds will chop seconds off your lap times

Good to see more S2 track cars arriving - let's get them all out together []

 

[Masher]

ORIGINAL: edh

Good to see more S2 track cars arriving - let's get them all out together []

Any suggestion? I've Snetterton booked on 13th Sept if anyone is interested to join me []

Cheers
Mick

 

[edh]

I stick my trackdays in my sig so that people know where/when I'm going

Sep 13 is out for me as I'm at Porsche silverstone on the 14th. Oct is Spa (second time at Spa - can't wait!) and then nothing booked after that.

 

[Masher]

I could not afford Spa just now but what a fantastic circuit. Have fun.
Mick

 

[J.C944TurboMan]

To gain more power from the S2 lump ? Some people have fitted a supercharger kit if you have deep pockets ?
Google 944 S2 Super charge and there is a red one engine bay images and link on build .
My copy and paste is not working on this lap top for some strange reason .
I remember back in the day , they stripped off all the body under sealant as to reduce weight , then just applied a good primer .

 

[edh]

Also 968 m030 anti roll bars - not cheap though... (I just bought a complete m030 suspension kit - bars, springs & dampers) for my 986 Boxster for not much more than the cost of the 968 bars...

I'm still using standard S2 bars. I have a rear 19mm somewhere & just waiting for a spare bit of cash to buy the front..

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Peter Empson's supercharged S2 build is worth looking at, pretty much the most hardcore road-legal 944 out there, I'd imagine. It was incredibly fast before the supercharging conversion as well.


http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/944lux/

 

[Globe_911]

wow, great response!

As far as easy gains go, as mentioned we've probably got most of that out, don't want to get rid of all of the carpet/trim etc as the weight saving would be relatively small and there's always the possibility that the car might be used as a fast road toy at some point in the future.

Do you know why EMC don't recommend replacing the rear hatch? The weight saving seems to be fairly significant or is it to do with affecting the balance?

As far as coilovers go it would be the Gaz ones purely because of cost, being less than half the price of the KW's and still seem to have very good reviews.

The brakes were fantastic with yellowstuff pads and braided hoses, just feel like they could be a bit sharper, are the m030's the same as the big blacks? And what's the difference with the big reds? Assume adaptors are easy enough to find?

hoses and cooling ducts could bea relatively cheap and effective mod...

supercharging would be too much to be honest, I'll have read of the thread though!

 

[benjj]

I'm just about to fit Koni yellow adjustable dampers and 25mm drop springs to my early 2.5 rally build with a full car Powerflex polybush kit.

I've got the first run of rear ARBs that are a similar circumference to a human hair. I'm sticking with it for now but may well end up getting a later model item if it doesn't go round corners how I want it to.

I'll report back on the polybushes. It will be a Herculean task as every one on the car is getting done.

 

[edh]

m030 brakes are "medium" blacks - bigger pad area, thicker disc but similar diameter, still fit under 16" wheels. Big Blacks are the same calipers as big reds and will only fit under 17" wheels. Try some proper pads first though...

I wouldn't go anywhere near a supercharger TBH - there's so many issues with heat, boost, management etc.. If you want a more powerful car, better to buy one. There are some gains in fitting a 968 engine, or a fresh build of an S2 motor, but maybe not while your current engine works..

 

[ChasR]

My guess for EMC not recommending taking the hatch out may be to do with fitment, or weight. AFAIK quite a few 944s need ballast adding into them for certain events do they not?

 

[944 man]

Its where the weight is principally. Also, as you say, theres little point removing weight from the end leaving it light which you then have to replace with lead bars bolted to a less beneficial location.

I have a polycarbonate hatch, but I would only suggest fitting it if youre taking a similar amount of weight from off the front of the vehicle too. That way you benefit from less having less mass without affecting the cars front and rear axle weights.

A GRP bonnet is a good place to start, followed by the original wings. Its the factory sealer which is heavy, not the panels themselves, so if you have retro-fitted parts then I wouldnt bother until theyre rusty (which seldom takes long without the sealer).

 

[944Scott]

ORIGINAL: edh

I stick my trackdays in my sig so that people know where/when I'm going

Sep 13 is out for me as I'm at Porsche silverstone on the 14th. Oct is Spa (second time at Spa - can't wait!) and then nothing booked after that.

I will come and watch but im not tracking mine.

 

[Eldavo]

You'd be amazed how much weight is in the sound deadening.

I put carpets back into mine after the deadening had been removed, it's nasty old tar stuff and weighs about 35kg!

 

[edh]

I took out the thick layers of soundproofing but left the thinner stuff that is bonded to the shell (too much effort)

The car is fine with just carpets - the boot carpet cuts down the transmission noise a lot and is easy to remove (+ spare) on a track day.

I took out the rear seat base but haven't found a cheap way to trim that area so might get a base to refit. It's only a couple of kilos.

 

[Neil Haughey]

Just a couple or three points.

Best place to remove weight is from the front end, makes a huge difference to the cars dynamics which is why you will see that every ground up built 944 race car has fibreglass everything up front (wings / bonnet / bumper cover / badge panel) with no head lights.

I was convinced for a long time that I needed better brakes but two things changed my mind:

1) Using proper Pagid race pads. In my case yellow up front and orange in the back. The balance is perfect and whilst the system always boils the fluid I have never had the brakes go off. I have also used the EMC cooling duct kit but recently haven't had the hoses on and it hasn't made a huge difference.

2) Following Alex Eacock and having tuition from Ben Demetriou. Between them Alex won the championship last year and has something like 30+ race wins, Ben won his class in the championship 3 times and held/holds several class lap records some of which are barely believable they are that fast. Neither of those guys brake that late, instead easing up before turning in so that the car is nicely set up to get on the throttle really really early way before the apex a lot of the time. Those guys have demonstrated that this is the fastest way to drive these cars. Ben drove my car at Combe the other week and honestly I can't see how bigger calipers would reduced the lap time. I brake harder than he does and in my own case I haven't found the brakes lacking in ultimate power on list 1B tyres.

I don't doubt that medium black calipers (M030) will be sharper and help stop the car fractionally quicker, I don't believe for a second though that they will make anyone that I know off actually lap faster in reality.

Now that I have finally seen the light and realised that trying to race in the clubs championship was really daft for my meagre means the two things I am looking at doing on my car are:
1) Run with 245x45-16 tyres all round, its pretty clear you need as much grip as you can get on the front axle of these cars.
2) Fit adjustable rear ARB drop links. This last one is for a very specific reason. When one corner weights a car you're supposed to disconnect the ARBs but the problem with this is that on a 944 the stock drop links are not adjustable and the car always seems to put a lot of pre-load into the ARBs and hence across the car mucking up the point of doing the corner weighting in the first place. I am hoping that with adjustable rear drop links I/we can corner weight the car more properly and hence set the rear ARB with 0 pre-load.

 

[Eldavo]

I had a local interior trimmer carpet my back seat.

Cost about £130 IIRC

 

[Andy97]

ORIGINAL: Globe_911


Do you know why EMC don't recommend replacing the rear hatch? The weight saving seems to be fairly significant or is it to do with affecting the balance?

Alex reckons that removing the 25 Kg from over the driven wheels ruins the handling.

ORIGINAL: edh

Loads of front camber will really help the turn in & kill understeer

Can you tell me how this is achieved? My 924S has a fair amount of -ve camber on the rear but not the front.