beware of what lies beneath now working

[simkin911]

ORIGINAL: sc0tty On the subject of rusty sills etc, there are clearly some 944s that are shot, and some that aren't. Therefore it stands to reason that how a car is looked after must have a bearing on why some are rusty and some are not. Basically, if you look after your car, it is less likely to rust isnt it. Not all 944s are in terminal decline, just the ones that have not been looked after correctly. Its just natural selection. Hopefully in a few years tiime all the sheds will be long gone.

I agree but I'd expect to see some rust on all 20 yr old cars that have been used - even if simply confined to inside the sills. Unless someone has owned their car from new, then this is difficult to manage/avoid. However, I'd expect all owners interested in looking after their cars for the long term to deal with the rust as part of regular preventative works (ie preventing small issues becoming worse). At the end of the day, it's not the cars that will decide whether they will go to the breakers... it's the owners. If anything this thread proves that point. Bodywork can be rebuilt. Engines can be rebuilt. All we need moving forward is the continual availability of parts. Personally, I've decided I'm keeping my car for the long term. I'm therefore spending money on my car with the long term in mind. It's certainly not an investment!

 

[pauljmcnulty]

On the subject of rusty sills etc, there are clearly some 944s that are shot, and some that aren't. Therefore it stands to reason that how a car is looked after must have a bearing on why some are rusty and some are not.

To a degree, yes. A car that's been kept in a de-humidified garage, treated with corrosion inhibitor regularly and had the underseal inspected and re-applied annually will rust less than a car that's used daily, all year round, and parked on the road. But, it may well have other problems bought on by lack of use. I think what's happened in many cases is that people just haven't seen the rust inside the sills, or behind the wheel-arch liners, creep up. When I bought my first 944, seven years ago now, the buyer's guides were still bleating on about them having a fully-galvanised shell, so any corrosion was due to poorly-repaired accident damage. Clearly not true, as many early cars were already being scrapped due to terminal rust in the sills. Now it's become clear that the extra plastic trim on S2s and Turbos is trapping muck and accelerating corrosion. Even exceptional cars have the beginnings of corrosion, only the very few that have been protected for many years don't. The issue is more that people ignore the problem, or don't know it's there, until it's an expensive restoration job. I'd still like anyone to tell me of a car built twenty years ago that rusts less than a 944; if they were a more rare or exotic car we'd be thinking nothing of £30K restoration jobs on them, yet here we are panicking over a couple of grand to keep the bodywork good for another twenty years!

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: sc0tty On the subject of rusty sills etc, there are clearly some 944s that are shot, and some that aren't. Therefore it stands to reason that how a car is looked after must have a bearing on why some are rusty and some are not. Basically, if you look after your car, it is less likely to rust isnt it. Not all 944s are in terminal decline, just the ones that have not been looked after correctly. Its just natural selection. Hopefully in a few years tiime all the sheds will be long gone.

Sc0tty, I hear what you are saying, and suspect you are partially right. But I'm not quite sure whether it is this simple. Yes, looking after your car has to be a big factor in how long it lasts, but I have seen some very well-looked after 944's showing pretty bad rust early in their life, and some less-pampered examples still holding strong. My own S2 has lived outside for more than the last 10 years (neither I nor the previous owner had a garage) and yet it seems to be in very good structural condition indeed. Not trying to boast, but I have a very good look at the underneath at least twice a year and have yet to see anything resembling rust. (The wing bottoms were a slight exception to this, but only on the passenger side.) However, I do apply large quantities of the best anti-rust stuff I can find (Bilt Hamber Dynax S50) annually, and take great care to keep the underneath of the car clean. (Jetwashing all the salt off a couple of weeks ago while lying in a deep puddle by the side of the road was a cold, wet, uncomfortable and generally miserable job, but a job well done.) However, other factors will come in to play. Badly-repaired accident damage will be a factor. As will the grade of steel used when the car was made; a bad batch of steel could negatively affect a number of cars. I also have a personal theory that Porsche were cost-cutting towards the end of the 944 production life; I have seen quite a number of alarmingly rusty H- and J-registered cars, despite them being the newest of the bunch, but haven't heard of serious rust affecting the early cars anywhere near as much. There is also the 'luck of the draw' factor. I recall a friend who is very into old Ford Capris. He actively looks for cars which have had bad oil leaks for some time, on the basis that a fine spray of oil along the underwise of the car can halt rust most effectively ... [&:] Oli.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

I also have a personal theory that Porsche were cost-cutting towards the end of the 944 production life; I have seen quite a number of alarmingly rusty H- and J-registered cars,

That's what RPM were saying when I was looking at the late turbo they took in for breaking. I can't see why they'd galvanise them differently, but different grades of steel certainly might affect it. Apparently Fiat traded their old model plant to the Russians in return for steel supplies. This was of such poor quality that it was responsible for the late 70s to 80s Alfas rusting so badly.

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty That's what RPM were saying when I was looking at the late turbo they took in for breaking. I can't see why they'd galvanise them differently, but different grades of steel certainly might affect it. Apparently Fiat traded their old model plant to the Russians in return for steel supplies. This was of such poor quality that it was responsible for the late 70s to 80s Alfas rusting so badly.

That's interesting. I got the impression from a much smaller sample that RPM will have had, it's interesting that they think along the same lines. Quality of steel is a major factor in rust resistance. It's one of the reasons why so few European cars from the immediate post-war period survived; any decent-quality steel had been fired over the horizon at the opposing team, and there wasn't much left to make cars from. Oli.

 

[peanut]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty Apparently Fiat traded their old model plant to the Russians in return for steel supplies. This was of such poor quality that it was responsible for the late 70s to 80s Alfas rusting so badly.

I once spent 5 x days welding up an Alfasud for my skin n blister ,getting severe arc-eye to boot whereapon she went out and bought another car ? Those things sure could rust[]

 

[zcacogp]

Ha! Sisters, eh? I remember mine drove my parents' car through the garage door once, but didn't bother to open it beforehand. I also remember her driving over the front flower bed in her old golf once. Doesn't sound too surprising, until you realise it was a raised bed, which stood two feet above the ground with solid brick walls around the edge! I also remember her writing off my old Mk1 GTi, by pulling out in front of a ford fiesta at a junction. She WASN'T a popular sister for some time after that ... [] Oli.

 

[peanut]

ORIGINAL: zcacogp Ha! Sisters, eh? I remember mine drove my parents' car through the garage door once, but didn't bother to open it beforehand. I also remember her driving over the front flower bed in her old golf once. Doesn't sound too surprising, until you realise it was a raised bed, which stood two feet above the ground with solid brick walls around the edge! I also remember her writing off my old Mk1 GTi, by pulling out in front of a ford fiesta at a junction. She WASN'T a popular sister for some time after that ... [] Oli.

I was going to suggest swopping Sisters but now I'm not so sure ....[] 2 foot high brick flower bed eh ! []

 

[Super_Marv]

What technique do you lot use, for removing the old cavity wax within the cills? Or do you just spray extra layers of it on?

 

[zcacogp]

Nick, I couldn't believe it when I saw it. One front wheel on top of the 2ft wall, and the other on the ground, and one rear wheel dangling in mid-air ... To this day I don't know how she did it. (And am, in truth, confused - I don't know how such a thing could even be possible.) The sad thing is, judging by the panelwork on her more recent cars, her driving has improved little! Super_Marv, I just put the new wax over the old one. It may not be ideal, but I can't think how you would remove it, without using large quantities of solvents (as you can't physically scrape it off because you can't get to it.) Oli.

 

[peanut]

ORIGINAL: Super_Marv What technique do you lot use, for removing the old cavity wax within the cills? Or do you just spray extra layers of it on?

that is one advantage of simply using old sump oil and grease mixed. The oil continues to 'creep' along any rusty metal including vertically. Not very high-tech or pretty but it certainly kills rust very effectively. I painted my bubbling cill 2x years ago and there has been no visible signs of it progressing .[] One day I'll get aroundtoit

 

[peanut]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty I'd still like anyone to tell me of a car built twenty years ago that rusts less than a 944; if they were a more rare or exotic car we'd be thinking nothing of £30K restoration jobs on them, yet here we are panicking over a couple of grand to keep the bodywork good for another twenty years!

exactly!. The problem is us not the car. We are a bunch of cheapskates most of us. We buy a 20+ year old £40,000.00 'supercar' for shirt buttons and then moan when it costs us a couple of grand to fix it up. ? The thing is these cars were never intended for the type of buyers they attract these days . They were intended for middle class professionals , upper income bracket purchasers who could afford to maintain,repair and service them properly . I wonder how many of us 944 owners pay for a regular Porsche servicing on our cars ?

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: peanut I wonder how many of us 944 owners pay for a regular Porsche servicing on our cars ?

That's given me an interesting idea for a thread. We could all post pictures of our last bank statements, and from that we could guess who has their 944 serviced by Porsche! (Hint: The statements with the very small numbers at the bottom belong to owners who have their cars serviced by Porsche. The other ones with very small numbers at the bottom belong to owners who can't afford to have their cars serviced by Porsche. Ummm ... something went wrong there ... [&:] ) Oli.

 

[peanut]

its a funny thing Oli but when you are a poor penniless student or unemployed your lifestyle and standard of living is usually commensurate with your income or thereabouts and you are broke and penniless Later on in life when your income improves, your standard of living also rises somewhere in line with your income ...ahem..! cough Guess what ??? yep you are still broke [] ..Peanut scratches head .......wanders off muttering to himself....[&o]

 

[zcacogp]

Nick, Indeed. Which is why it is always important to live well within your means. A diminution of living standards is never a nice thing, and it's much easier to increase your standard of living than to decrease it. This is turning into a financial advice thread, but it's always important to be happy with the standard of living you currently have, and to spend less than you earn ... and if, for me, that means owning an old Porsche and doing the work on it myself, that's fine! And this is the situation that a lot of people on here are in; I don't get the impression that there are many who spend a lot on what is now an old and very cheap model of car. >OliAlsoWandersOffContemplatingWhetherWantingBeerBeforeLunchtimeMakesMeAnAlcoholic< Oli.

 

[JamesO]

Tinkering with with old cars is a part of the fun for me and given some of the parts prices its pay for labour or parts, pick one with my budget. Back on topic I would agree that the early cars rust less. My 82 944 had no rust and judging by the state of it had not led a pampered life. It had a crack in the floor from where somebody had hit something, was about as water tight as the Titanic, it got so damp the stereo went rusty and even the crack only had surface rust despite the damage being pretty old. When the car suffered a fire and was stripped of paint by the heat there was no sign of rust, or welding (apart from the repaired crack). The 89 car however by comparison seemed to have the rust resistance of a bent washer in a bucket of salt water and had led apparently a much more pampered life.

 

[peanut]

ORIGINAL: zcacogp >OliAlsoWandersOffContemplatingWhetherWantingBeerBeforeLunchtimeMakesMeAnAlcoholic< Oli.

[][][]come come Oli things cannot be that bad surely ? you don't have the grandkids coming over for the afternoon do you ?

 

[zcacogp]

I was wondering whether one of the grandchildren would like to drive me to the day centre, actually. They have a particularly good Bingo caller this afternoon, and I'd quite like to be there. Of course I would take the S2, but the front wishbone is knackered and I need to change it. Of course, I could spend the afternoon changing the wishbone and then drive myself to bridge this evening ... Maybe that's a better idea. Thanks. Oli.

 

[Suffolk944]

ORIGINAL: zcacogp

ORIGINAL: peanut I wonder how many of us 944 owners pay for a regular Porsche servicing on our cars ?

That's given me an interesting idea for a thread. We could all post pictures of our last bank statements, and from that we could guess who has their 944 serviced by Porsche! (Hint: The statements with the very small numbers at the bottom belong to owners who have their cars serviced by Porsche. The other ones with very small numbers at the bottom belong to owners who can't afford to have their cars serviced by Porsche. Ummm ... something went wrong there ... [&:] ) Oli.

When I first bought my old car DHX I had her serviced and a few jobs done by Colchester OPC....however that was the one and only time !!! Since then both cars have either been to Promax or Autostrasse.

 

[peanut]

I'd forgotten that you're just a young whippersnapper Oli [] I don't have any either but my Sisters kids sure scare the hell out of me until I put everything 5 foot off the floor[]