Beaky's Bar

[John Sims]

Look what is waiting for Beaky when I can get it from the frozen wastelands of the North

I am pant wettingly excited.

After considerable fighting [], and far more time than I could have imagined, my Cobra Monza Pro seat is finely bolted in - I hope I never have to take it out again. Fen's comments regarding height were very pertinent. It is a low as it can go at the back and still gives less then an inch clearance with the roof lining if I put my helmet on.

The seat belt mountings are beautiful, though I modestly say so myself. I have retained the original inertia belt for shopping trips as well as added rings for clipping in my Schroth harness which is currently sitting in a box by my desk.

All I need now is the roll hoop []

 

[appletonn]

Looking the business John, as is the front of Peter's giant-slaying S2!

 

[944Turbo]

Will the bar go in with the seats in place?

Looks good though, I was also very tempted - nice place to mount a camera [] but still use the back seats at the moment,
Tony

 

[Peter Empson]

Me like []

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: 944Turbo

Will the bar go in with the seats in place?......

As I understand, though I think getting it into position might be a bit of a fight.

If the harness bar was removable the main hoop could stay bolted in and still leave the drivers side rear seat available. Just a thought [:-].

Once in I will do some pictures to see how viable the car is for small people in the back.

 

[PJS917]

John,

To get the bar in, just remove your drivers seat...........Oh er maybe not[][][][]

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: PJS917

John,

To get the bar in, just remove your drivers seat...........Oh er maybe not[][][][]

[] I think I will be examining other methods before I resort to that - or rather - I will be examining absolutely every other method possible before the drivers seat leaves that car ever again. []

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: John Sims


I will be examining absolutely every other method possible before the drivers seat leaves that car ever again. []

Didn't you misplace a tenner underneath whilst fitting it []

Can't wait to see pics of the seats and bar fully installed. I'd never have thought that Beaky would have become such a dedicated track car but I have to admit I'm tempted to do something similar with mine this summer.

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: Diver944

.....Didn't you misplace a tenner underneath whilst fitting it [].....

No I still have it. [] And.... if I didn't, and it was the last tenner to my name (not a difficult concept to imagine) the seat still isn't coming out.

I know 100% there isn't a tenner under the seat any way. The seat wouldn't fit if there were.

So far the mods have little bearing other than making Beaky more pleasant to drive. The back seats were last used for the Cotswold Rally and unlikely to be used again until the same event this year. As Peter gets bigger encouraging him, and Mostyn, into the back gets less likely so I seldom need more than one seat.

 

[bennyboy]

The seat belt mountings are beautiful, though I modestly say so myself. I have retained the original inertia belt for shopping trips as well as added rings for clipping in my Schroth harness which is currently sitting in a box by my desk.

Hi John. you've got me all excited now too! Can you expand on the above at all? Thanks

 

[Big Dave]

John.
You might have to remove the passenger side seat then......

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: Big Dave UK

John.
You might have to remove the passenger side seat then......

Most likely [] It will probably happen any way as I swapped the seat backs previously. the passenger side bolsters were far less worn and I had to repair the drivers seat side bolster. Putting the repaired bolster to the middle of the car was much better. Now I only have one original seat it makes sense that it should have all the best bits.

 

[PJS917]

ORIGINAL: Big Dave UK

You might have to remove the passenger side seat then......

Tis the easiest way to fit and remove said bar, and it leaves space to get in to fit all the mounting bolts.

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: bennyboy

The seat belt mountings are beautiful, though I modestly say so myself. I have retained the original inertia belt for shopping trips as well as added rings for clipping in my Schroth harness which is currently sitting in a box by my desk.

Hi John. you've got me all excited now too! Can you expand on the above at all? Thanks

As you will appreciate the standard seat belt mounting is welded to the side of the seat runners. When you take out the seat you loose the seat belt mount.

My race seat has fixed steel mountings. The mountings are thicker, and more solid, than the original seat runner. I concluded that if it was acceptable to bolt the seat belt to the original seat runners it must be more than adequate to do the same with my new mountings.

The Schroth harness comes with and expansive installation CD stating mounting points, strap angles and locations. The angles all seemed to point to the seat mounting rails as being the most appropriate location. This pretty much sold it to me, along with a reluctance to drill holes in the floor of the car. I drilled holes at the rear of the seat rails and used the prescribed eye bolts with a plate and nut to the rear. On the transmission tunnel side side rail the eye bolt also secures the original seat belt stalk.

This mounting employed the strongest part of the car floor, accommodates the original seat belt retention points and improves upon them as the new seat brackets are more sturdy and will spread the load more effectively. Instead of relying on one bolt to hold the seat belt bracket to the car structure you are using three in each case. The original seat mounting is a multi walled folded section with captive securing plates - it must be at least as strong as fitting a plate to section of floor (or transmision tunnel) only one skin thick. That was my argument to myself and, unlike most (seemingly) good solutions, was one of the easiest to execute.

No doubt some will see flaws but as I am only doing what Porsche did, and improving on it, I am pretty relaxed.

 

[bennyboy]

Thanks John, I think I understand, but would a picture be possible? I'm considering bolting my eye-mount plates to the seat side mount (vertical section). Will that produce a similar result?

 

[Fen]

ORIGINAL: John Sims

As you will appreciate the standard seat belt mounting is welded to the side of the seat runners. When you take out the seat you loose the seat belt mount.

My race seat has fixed steel mountings. The mountings are thicker, and more solid, than the original seat runner. I concluded that if it was acceptable to bolt the seat belt to the original seat runners it must be more than adequate to do the same with my new mountings.

The Schroth harness comes with and expansive installation CD stating mounting points, strap angles and locations. The angles all seemed to point to the seat mounting rails as being the most appropriate location. This pretty much sold it to me, along with a reluctance to drill holes in the floor of the car. I drilled holes at the rear of the seat rails and used the prescribed eye bolts with a plate and nut to the rear. On the transmission tunnel side side rail the eye bolt also secures the original seat belt stalk.

This mounting employed the strongest part of the car floor, accommodates the original seat belt retention points and improves upon them as the new seat brackets are more sturdy and will spread the load more effectively. Instead of relying on one bolt to hold the seat belt bracket to the car structure you are using three in each case. The original seat mounting is a multi walled folded section with captive securing plates - it must be at least as strong as fitting a plate to section of floor (or transmision tunnel) only one skin thick. That was my argument to myself and, unlike most (seemingly) good solutions, was one of the easiest to execute.

No doubt some will see flaws but as I am only doing what Porsche did, and improving on it, I am pretty relaxed.

I think that makes sense. The main reason I ruled out something similar is that my seat base is aluminium. I did not want to utilise the side mounting bolt to the seat shell which is just a nut-sert into fibreglass (scary enough just to hold the seat on if you ask me) and neither did I especially like the idea of attaching my eye bolt to the ali as it is a bit brittle for the purpose, hence I went with the tunnel.

I would imagine you attached the bolt to the lower section of the mount such that it is as near to a mounting bolt as possible, rather than up the riser any distance?

 

[John Sims]

I agree. I wouldn't have done it that way were mine aluminium - and I used to design bullet resistant screens in aluminium [8|]

The seat belt anchors are as low as I can get them - right at the bottom of the rails and within mm of the floor bolts. I am not sure this is that important as the plates are so solid that any force will be transferred throughout. The main issue is to avoid a point where leverage could give mechanical advantage.

I previously would have agreed with your point regarding the seat side fixing bolts as anything over and above a fixing for the seat. I'll be honest I have seen an example of a seat belt anchor fixed through one of the seat fixing bolts on the web.I was going to condemn it but, in retrospect, it is no more, or less, than a high tensile bolt with an equivalent captive nut. Granted the force in a crash may well shatter the seat material around the captive nut but there is no reason to suspect the nut would pull through the hole in the fixing bracket. If anything, braking the seat material may absorb some of the energy.

Taking all of the above into account, and then going back to my screen building days, we can speculate, and hypothesise, as much as we like but the proof of the pudding is in the eating. We will never know what will fail until we test it (which in this instance we can't) and then we would only know how it performed in those exact circumstances. If you can reproduce what the manufacturer provided (and tested), or as near as, you can be fairly confident you are on the right track.

 

[Big Dave]

John.
Im not sure if you realise. BUT on the 968 cars the seatbelt anchorage point is not welded to the seat runner but bolted on.
The small bracket is available from any OPC or breakers yard, as im sure are the later seat runners....
I found this out when i had my S2 after the 968...

 

[John Sims]

If only I'd known previously [8|] [].

However, with several tons of metal seat mount I fear the addition weight of a bracket could be the last straw. []

 

[xenon]

love the colour of the turbo in that first pic.