advice sought (long)

[Lowlander]

Hello folks,

This is my first posting on this forum. Please be patient. For as long as I can remember I have wanted a 911. Now at the grand old age of 30 I can finally afford one (probably can't really justify owning one but thats another story!)

Anyway, I have always dreamed about having a lovely SC sitting on my drive but before I get caught up in the romance of owning a 911 I'll be doing plenty of research. I don't want to get my fingers burnt by buying a shed so i'm looking for guidance on what goes wrong, are there any websites or books that you would recommend for buying advice?, can anyone recommend a reputable dealer for this type of car? I've seen plenty of non porsche specialist offering cheap 911's but I am always wary that thyey don't fully nderstadn the cars.

I have done a fair bit of background reading already and have drawn up a shortlist of 'must haves' and 'desirables'. See below.

Must have's

1. Coupe shape. Never really felt the targa or cabrio did the shape justice.
2. Fuch wheels
3. FSH with plenty of bills for all recent work.
4. Tidy bodywork and solid shell.

Desirables

1. S/S heat exchangers.
2. engine rebuild
3. gearbox rebuild.
4. No rear spoiler.
5. sport pack.
6. Silver in colour.
7. Post 80 car (204 bhp)

I know that there are plenty of very nice SC's about but i also know there are plenty of dogs as well. Although I have the money to buy now it would be foolish to rush in without doing a LOT more background reading so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

In addition to the points mentioned above if anyone has any recommendations for insurance compaies that you be great.

I'm based in Edinburgh so if there are any SC owners nearby that wouldn't mind me having a poke around your pride and joy then please drop me an e-mail.

My budget is somewhat limited but I do appreciate that it is better to pay more for a nice car that has lots of work done than buy a nail that needs a full engine and gearbox rebuild !

All the very best.


Martin.

 

[engleflick]

Hi Martin,

Good luck with your search, your list of requirements and desirables shouldn't be a problem - depending how much you want to spend.

I live near Gatwick and bought my car from a non specialist dealer in London, after looking at lots of other very ropey cars I bought it without an inspection[8|] but I wasn't paying top money for it and plan to have the car a long time, so will budget for the engine & bodywork I wish to have done in time. (for me thats part of the fun of owning a car like this - no really!!)

Wanting an original car is a nice thing to wish for, but lots of very good cars will have modifications different wheels, steering wheel, spoilers etc (mine had 17" Cup 3's, a momo wheel, split seats and a host of other 'mods' - with some careful looking I now have 16" fuchs, the original steering wheel and a replacement set of Pasha seats) Just budget for returning the car you purchase to standard if thats what you want. There are some very good porsche breakers out there and plain engine lids and fuchs alloys come up for sale regularly on Ebay - check out the costs and budget if DIY is you style - If not then your wait may be that much more.

With regard to insurance it really depends if you are going to use the porsche as a 'second' car. I am also now 30 (and have had my car for 2 years - nearly) with my car insured as a 'second' car on a classic policy (limited to 5000 miles per annum) it is £330 with Jardine Faber (the number is in 911 & Porsche World magazine) Try different people though, you may be able to get a better deal (if you do let us know on here![])

Happy hunting and I am sure you will get more advice here from the SC boys (and girls)

 

[bones]

Welcome Martin
With all these questions the best thing you can do is call me, my no. is in the back of Porsche Post. Meanwhile buy

'Porsche 911 Story' by Paul Frere (7th edition)
'911 Red Book' by Patrick C. Paternie and
'Porsche 911SC (1977-83) Ultimate Buyers Guide'
All are available from the club shop or Amazon.co.uk

A word of caution, the 'sport pack' SCs have front and rear spoilers, sports seats and harder suspension, deleting just the rear spoiler is a dangerous option resulting in at best 'twitchy' handling, delete both or preferbly fit a bigger rear spoiler and a splitter if you want some real grip, the spoilers are not there for show.
As Dan says standard cars in good shape are hard to come by but there are more and more SCs out there that have had a considerable amount of money spent on them to keep them up to spec or have ben extensively modified, expect to pay more for cars with pages of invoices. You could buy cheap though (5-6k) and budget to spend the same again to get near a good car. Personally I'd look to buy the best I could with a PPI from someone like Peter Morgan. Ring your RO for advice on local owners to contact and give AON a shot at a classic car policy quote. Good Luck , give me a call if you like.

 

[Guest]

Hiya Martin, welcome to the forum.

IMO you are right to look for originality, that way there are no compromises on adding value for bits you don't want. I know some people have put big money into changing things and fair play to them when they have done it properly, but there are some really nice original SC coupes out there that anyone would be proud to own, me included. Two in particular in this month's 911 & PW, though they both look a little dear to be honest. Be prepared for a bit of searching, 'don't rush into it' would be my first piece of advice and definitely get a PPI done BY A PORSCHE SPECIALIST would be my second (cannot emphasise that enough [8D]).

If you haven't yet done so, post a hello note in your region's forum section and go along to a meet, you will quickly learn what you like, what to go for and what to avoid by looking at other peoples' machinery, well worth doing that.

Cheers and let us know how you get on, JG

 

[Lowlander]

Car anyone give me some guidance on what a good 911 sc coupe is going for (price wise) these days?

thanks.

Martin.

 

[Guest]

Personally I wouldn't pay more than £12,500 for a REALLY REALLY NICE one, you could get one a lot cheaper but you will almost certainly have to spend money on it, better off finding one that has the tensioner mods etc. done. It's got to have FSH, not all going to be main dealer but that is what you want anyway, the good ones are usually specialist maintained. Finding low mileage is not going to be easy if you are set on a particular colour/trim combo, but I would be happy with miles as long as maybe a gearbox rebuild and clutch were already done. They are out there for a bit more but I would stop bidding at twelve and a half. Having said that you might find a minter cheaper than that depending where you look.

There will be some differing opinions on this, I wonder if anyone has sold a decent SC (that is not a museum piece) for more than that in the last 6 months.

 

[bones]

It's really how long is a piece of string, everything John said I agree with, If you take your time you may come across a bargain. Look for wads of invoices and don't be put off by high mileage engines. Of all 911 engines the SC is the most over engineered unstressed unit you will find. PCGB member owned cars that have been with the owner for a few years may be a starting point, personally I would avoid dealers unless it's Autofarm or someone of a similar ilk. I've seen SCs leave dealers for £13,000 recently but I wouldn't consider paying this sort of money as you are firmly into Carrera 3.2 territory and even bargain 964s.

 

[engleflick]

I agree with what John says too, except

It's got to have FSH

Why? What does it prove? Yes if you are paying top money for a 'genuine' one or two owner car then I think it would be reasonable to expect a good history, to back up what you see.

If you are buying a car with 4, 5 owners + (which a lot of expensive cars have) a fully stamped service book proves nothing - a wadge of bills and information about recent work done, parts replaced, engine work completed and a good inspection on the current state of the car are far more important.

So long as the car has good recent history (how much you pay will reflect how much history you can expect to get) it doesn't really matter if the service book is all stamped up right back to the first owner now you are the tenth - all our cars are over 20 years old now, go on condition and an inspection recommendation, if its got a fully stamped service book as well - great.

Just my opinion, but had to get it off my chest[]

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: engleflick

I agree with what John says too, except

It's got to have FSH

Why? What does it prove?

All I mean is that a 12 and a half grand car had better have full service history or no sale in my book, I would buy a 9 grand above average SC coupe with owner maintenance, but no way would I buy anything less than top notch at top money. Is a 5-owner car with no specialist history top notch? With availability the way it is? There's no shortage of clean SC's out there as far as I can see.

You know I do lots of my own work, know some good Porsche-trained mechanics, have no intention of selling, am not loaded and could do without the expense of 'specialist' attention, but despite all this the car will still go to Tuthills once a year. It works on many levels for me, not all to do with residuals. To be honest I don't fully understand it myself (!), maybe it's what I think you have to do when you have one of these and you want it to go properly and stay pukka. I buy into Tuthills & they are not mad expensive for their ability IMO, that will be part of it. For me, it's money well spent to have their invoices in the file. Perhaps that satisfaction is part of the pleasure of ownership for me. There is also a trade off in using my time versus paying for theirs. Dunno, who knows?!

If I went to see a car and it had JZ or Tuthills or Chris Turner (or Alméras) history then I would up my bid (if pushed, lol). That's just how I see it. Obviously not saying you are wrong Dan, just my opinion [8D].

 

[engleflick]

Thats kind of what I was trying to get at 'Top notch money - top notch car with history to prove it' definatley, but to buy into a cheaper car on the strength of FSH, may be a putting to much store into a book of stamps - what your reasearch and a good inspection can tell you may help to save a fortune.

But what do I know I bought my car for bottom money, without inspection or FSH (a big pile of recent bills though[]), and yes I have had a couple of slightly nasty suprises (clutch failure for one!) but I still wouldn't be parted with my 911 because improving & getting to know how it works is a large part of what I bought it for.

Its nice to be able to put forward these differing opinions, and hopefully steer someone (Martin in this case) towards there own style of SC ownership - and then let us all know about it[]

 

[Guest]

Amen to all that Dan, the SC forum is one of my favourite places on the web. Great people. []

 

[Bazgillie]

Hello Martin
Bought mine privately liked the seller and could see that him and his dad were both well into Porsches via an advert in Auto Trader. On any 20 year old car I would say the bodywork is what can give you the biggest and nastiest bills so check the B posts, wings round the lights and the area at the bottom of the screen. SSI exhaust is nice to have as the exhaust system on SCs is not a cheap item. I think dealers and specialist are not the best place to buy a car of this age as there is not a lot in it for them better to look private but get an inspection as the other lads have said. I got a good deal on insurance from AON £260 agred value unlimited mileage but must be alarmed and in garage if at home and limited to 2 trips to work a week and not your only car.
Hope this helps Baz