Advice please on a 964 purchase

[darrenh]

Hi all - I am looking to buy a 964 off a friend of a friend. This bloke is straight up and has had the car 17 years in which time only issue he has had was to replace the oil piping and a new hood (someone slashed it).

It's a 91/H reg Porsche 964 Carrera 4 Cabriolet in Amethyst (the dark marroon colour)

He is a nice bloke but he told me to go and put a value on it!

It has 68k on the clock and has only 4 things I can say need commenting on:

1) it has a small inch sq rust patch on the valance in front of the windscreen - I don't know if this is serious, superficial or even why it would happen so would appreciate any comments - also, I wouldnt want the whole car to be resprayed for this so is it easily fixable?
2) it has a dent on on the wing panel just behind the door - its slightly concaved (again is this easily fixable)?
3) there is a 1cm rip on the cream leather back seat (I am assuming this is fixable!) and they are showing their age.
4) its been covered and but unused for 2 years - this worries me a little as it hasnt been used

So - any ideas on the price range. My review of the websites is anywhere from £10k to £20k!

thanks guys!

D

 

[Steve Brookes]

You're right that there is a large variation in the prices of 964s which doesn't make things easy. Generally, specials like the celebration command the highest price, followed by coupes and then cabs/targas. Manuals are more sort after than tiptronics.

Of the little information that you've provided, the low owner number and relatively low mileage of the car are important factors in its value. But these have to be backed up with a very good service history to command the highest price. At the moment my personal thought is that the car is worth around £15K. But whether it is actually worth that figure depends on the condition. You're right to worry that it has not moved for a couple of years because things can deteriorate (e.g. tyres and bushings) or sieze up if not used.

These are only my own personal thoughts and you should seek a professional inspection before committing to buying it.

 

[Dave Wilkinson]

Given your desccription of the car and it's current condition I can't help feeling that Steve's guesstimate might be a tad optimistic. If the car hasn't been used for 2 years I would be very concerned about the rust on the scuttle. It is nearly ALWAYS worse than it looks and having been ignored for a couple of years I suspect you'll find a replacement panel might be needed to really fix it. You don't describe in any detail where the problem is. There are a couple of areas susceptible to corrosion around that area. The screen seal is (accidentally) designed such that it allows water to collect UNDER the seal, hence the rust. Another area is immediately next to the scuttle seal (between the scuttle and the wing itself). The latter is probably more complicated to fix as the former is fixable with a repair panel if it's really gone too far.

My other concern would be the engine. If, again, it's not been started for a couple of years, it's pretty unlikely that there's going to be much oil around the important bits as well as any petrol having gone "off" ages ago. I would be very careful about starting it without taking precautions to get oil pressure built up before letting it fire.

The dent on the rear wing shouldn't be too much of a problem for a decent dent man to fix - as long as rear access is OK. Bear in mind that the oil tank is there (on the right side) or there abouts so access might not be as obvious as you might like.

The seat tear is almost a certain fix - there are a few mobile leather repairers who can sort that out for a few quid.

The mileage is fairly low - but that doesn't really mean a great deal given the lack of use. Personally I would be looking at much nearer the £10K mark if you've got to pay for all the fixes. £15K would be nearer the mark if it had been regularly used and maintained and, perhaps, even more if it had some tasty mods.

If you are serious about the car I would be tempted to get a professional pre-purchase inspection done - just to make sure there's nothing you've missed that's going to cost a few more thousand to fix!!

Regards

Dave

 

[darrenh]

Steve/Dave - this is great advice thanks.

Its been SORN for 2 years but he says he starts it up and runs it every few months or so. He started it when I went ot see it and it kicked into action nicely.

The rust is around 5 cm to the right of the windscreen sprayer as you look at the car head on. It runs up to the seal of the base of the windscreen (rather than in the corner areas which seems to mentioned a lot by other owners).

He also mentioned that the seal on the top of the drier side door would need replacing as when driving at speed a little water would seep through where the soft top meeting the glass. Is that an easy replacement too?

 

[JamesBall]

"only issue he has had was to replace the oil piping and a new hood (someone slashed it)."

This is a bad point IMO. The more someone has spent on the car fixing issues, the less you will have to spend. The perfect car to my mind is the one which has had thousands spent on it every year.

 

[Steve Brookes]

Just to clarify that my £15K was what it should be worth if it is in very good condition, given the mileage and owner number. I'm not sure from the information available at the moment if it IS in very good condition, therefore this is NOT the figure I would pay myself []

 

[Gordon Attar]

As Steve said the car is worth 15/16k in good condition. I would suggest its value is say 15k less the cost of the repairs, which a good independant inspection will provide.

 

[Masher]

In my opinion if there is any uncertainty over a car (rust, lack of history, not used for a while) I'd get an independent inspection done. This will also provide a guide figure for value. As you're buying from a friend with whom I'll assume you want to stay a friend, the independence of this process will also maintain that element!

I had Peter Morgan associates inspect the car I bought and 2 years later I can reflect there was no inaccuracy in their report. One of the jobs I got done was rust around the windscreen. As already stated it WILL be much worse than it looks. I had pin-prick bubbles in 2 small clusters that turned out to be larger patches of rust on the panels with small perforations. A visible 5cm patch of rust is likely to be a sizeable job. I'd certainly budget £500 for the job if not more. Remember that the screen will have to come out and if it's chipped there is a chance it could break (and these are not cheap if not covered by insurance). I got mine done by a Porsche repair centre and although I'm sure I could have saved some money, I think the job they've done is very good and the paint match (on a red car) is excellent. The other thought that occurs to me on a car that has not run for 2 years is the state of anything to do with the brakes, clutch, typres and suspension. These tend to like being 'worked'.

Best of luck,
Mike

 

[tim_haskins]

I am with Dave...I think 10k ish maybe i would go to 11k but i think anything more i would walk away. I appricate it has low miles but to me that doesnt mean much. I would rather a car with higher miles but full and compleate service history. You must remember that a service is going to be £600 pounds + whatever else is wrong..brakes,clutch,bushes,etc...
This can soon mount up and your faced with 1500 pounds bill.

One bit of advice everyone on here gives is to buy on condition not on colour etc..This is mainly due to the fact that things can be very expensive to put right. Even if you can do the work yourself parts aint cheap!. I just replaced the brakes on my 964 and it cost nearly 2k in parts alone!( ok they are big reds )

Suspension nearly 2 k fitted...so you can see how it adds up. Personally i would look elsewhere and buy one that has had work done recently. Make sure to do PPI its well worth it in the long run

Tim

 

[polar964]

Darren,

As you have no doubt gleamed from the first replies to your post. It's extremely difficult to advise, even with the wealth of knowledge which is available on this forum and others, without physically seeing the car. From what you describe would make me feel extremely nervous and i'm with Tim on this one.

From what you have described, i wouldn't be to impatient. There are plenty of cherished 964's out there. If in your own mind you would like this particular car that you describe, then have it independent inspected by a well know respected specialist who knows 964's inside out. People on here can point you in the right direction for a specialist near where you are. If the seller is adverse to an inspection, just walk away!! The price of an inspection now will save a wallet attack once you've purchased. Best spend on the things you want to improve and not have any surprises! Best of luck in your search. []