997 2s v R8 on top gear
- Thread starter mozza
- Start date
Jimberland
New member
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz boring!
4wd v 2wd on a wet / damp track, not much of a test, at least 5th Gear put it up against a 4S.
"A new sports car king has just been crowned" says who?
The current R8 will be overshadowed when they release the proper one with the V10 engine.
What a coincidence how you've only just found this forum [
]
4wd v 2wd on a wet / damp track, not much of a test, at least 5th Gear put it up against a 4S.
"A new sports car king has just been crowned" says who?
The current R8 will be overshadowed when they release the proper one with the V10 engine.
What a coincidence how you've only just found this forum [
]
Jimberland
New member
I'm looking forward to watching it on Sunday.
I have to admit i do like the R8 having owned an S4 and a RS4 in the past I bet it is fantastic.
I have to admit i do like the R8 having owned an S4 and a RS4 in the past I bet it is fantastic.
garyw
Moderator
Thinking the same myself, not sure what the residuals will do when the V10 is launched, maybe the owners will set them alight... Doh! I forgot, they already do that themselvesORIGINAL: Jimberland
The current R8 will be overshadowed when they release the proper one with the V10 engine.
What a coincidence how you've only just found this forum [
The R8 is quick, we know that from the EVO magazine numbers [&:]
As pointed out the test is a bit one sided, 4wd v 2wd on slippy stuff, but thats part of the Top Gear charm [
]I look forward to watching it
In fact if the truth be told I'm jealous as heck... how did he get the tickets [
] []garyw
Jimberland
New member
Wouldn't we all.
Slight difference in price though!
"Virtually the same car" What?
Slight difference in price though!
"Virtually the same car" What?
sawood12
New member
Mmm, it was a damp track - a bog std C2S, so down on power and 2wd vs. 4wd - not to mention one of the best 4wd systems ever devised by mankind - the very latest incarnation from the people who introduced 4wd to performance cars. I'm very surprised it was only 2 seconds down on the R8! I'd say the king is alive and well. If you were to disconnect the front axel of the R8 and have another go I suspect the result would be quite different!!
I have a conspiracy theory about TG. I don't think it is a coincidence that the majority of Porshes they've tested on their track are in wet conditions - the 996 turbo was tested in a torrential downpour with about an inch of standing water. I have a theory they've planned this because they (JC) didn't want Porsches to totally dominate the top 10 on their power lap league. The occasions when they've tested cars back-to-back the Porsche has usually come out on top (Boxster vs. Honda S 2000 vs. BMW Z3 for example) or been exactly neck and neck (Ferrari F430 Stradale vs. GT3 both posted exactly the same times).
I suspect the R8 and equivalent 997 are probably very equal, and where one loses out to the other in one aspect, it will gain in another. However the facelift 997 is due out soon with direct injection and DSG (which the R8 already has) so I suspect that will give the edge back to the 997.
They keep on coming but the good old 'souped up Beetle' keeps on hitting them out of the park!! It really is an amazing car.
I have a conspiracy theory about TG. I don't think it is a coincidence that the majority of Porshes they've tested on their track are in wet conditions - the 996 turbo was tested in a torrential downpour with about an inch of standing water. I have a theory they've planned this because they (JC) didn't want Porsches to totally dominate the top 10 on their power lap league. The occasions when they've tested cars back-to-back the Porsche has usually come out on top (Boxster vs. Honda S 2000 vs. BMW Z3 for example) or been exactly neck and neck (Ferrari F430 Stradale vs. GT3 both posted exactly the same times).
I suspect the R8 and equivalent 997 are probably very equal, and where one loses out to the other in one aspect, it will gain in another. However the facelift 997 is due out soon with direct injection and DSG (which the R8 already has) so I suspect that will give the edge back to the 997.
They keep on coming but the good old 'souped up Beetle' keeps on hitting them out of the park!! It really is an amazing car.
Carreraboy told ya all ...998 will go mid engined V8 on R8 Chassis love the design and fresh look of the modern German Sportscar......can they tinker anymore with the 996/997 don't think so....they have to move on again as a "SuperCar"!
garyw
Moderator
YvesD
New member
I'm not so sure you know.
Porsche have already told us that they can safely take the current flat 6 out to 4 litres so add on direct injection etc and 450 ponies should be easily attainable from the atmo 'cooking' engines.
Ultimate handling balance is another question of course but the 911 is pretty good as it is, Im sure our man Walter Rohl will impart some more handling gems to the chassis engineers next time around to keep up with the opposition.
The King is still in rude health and firmly seated on the throne !
Yves
sawood12
New member
Hang on a second - v8 mid engined sportscar. How is that moving things on??? That is one of the most used (and abused) sportscar formats in the history of sportscars, and every time they have failed to beat the equivalent 911 in every dept. I accept that is some areas a mid engines sports car will be better that the 911 and in other areas the opposite will be true - however when you consider the whole package generally the 911 has shown to have the edge. The only down side to the 911 is that it is not balanced. But so what? I think there is too much emphasis on balance. What the 911 sacrifics with balance it gains so much more in basically every other dept. e.g. unparalelled traction even modern launch control systems can't match (no point having the power if you can't use it), and braking thanks to the rear weight distribution it means that the rear brakes are brought into use.
In fact the mid engined format brings some disadvantages such as twichy handling characteristics meaning that they are more difficult to drive on the limit because everything happens so much more quickly due to the lower polar moment of inertia. If building sportscars was as simple as placing the engine in the middle then why has this format failed to knock the 911 off the top spot so many times?? Audi have not done anything ground breaking with the R8. What they have done is simply to have done a good job of it.
I'm not R8 bashing - it looks like a fantastic car and will raise the bar for everyone else, however there is alot of hype about this car and it still has a long way to go before it proves itself in my view. The jury is still well and truly out as to whether it is a better all-round car than the EQUIVALENT 997.
And for those who say the 911 hasn't got much left to give in terms of improvement let me remind you that not so long ago they were saying that the PC maximum procesor speed that is likely to be possible was 500Mhz. Well i'm penning this note on a 3.5Ghz laptop that is 2 yrs old. I think the 911 has got much more to give and it's main rival in future will not be the R8 - it will be the Cayman.
In fact the mid engined format brings some disadvantages such as twichy handling characteristics meaning that they are more difficult to drive on the limit because everything happens so much more quickly due to the lower polar moment of inertia. If building sportscars was as simple as placing the engine in the middle then why has this format failed to knock the 911 off the top spot so many times?? Audi have not done anything ground breaking with the R8. What they have done is simply to have done a good job of it.
I'm not R8 bashing - it looks like a fantastic car and will raise the bar for everyone else, however there is alot of hype about this car and it still has a long way to go before it proves itself in my view. The jury is still well and truly out as to whether it is a better all-round car than the EQUIVALENT 997.
And for those who say the 911 hasn't got much left to give in terms of improvement let me remind you that not so long ago they were saying that the PC maximum procesor speed that is likely to be possible was 500Mhz. Well i'm penning this note on a 3.5Ghz laptop that is 2 yrs old. I think the 911 has got much more to give and it's main rival in future will not be the R8 - it will be the Cayman.
MarcBC
New member
R8 performance may well be better (on the track); I do not know. I do know; however, having sat in an R8 that there is only about 6" of space (literally) behind the seats and the luggage space under the bonnett is about 60% of the 911 C2 / S.
Probably a great car, but, for me, not for everyday use. I have a couple of cars and a motorbike and enjoy having the choice of what to take away for the weekend, not having the car dictate its use to me.
Probably a great car, but, for me, not for everyday use. I have a couple of cars and a motorbike and enjoy having the choice of what to take away for the weekend, not having the car dictate its use to me.
sawood12
New member
Sorry to keep harping on about this but I think I still must be missing something here. How is the R10 going to be any more awsome than the equivalent Lambo? It's like saying a Golf is a better car than an A3 when in actual fact they share the same chassis, suspension, engines, brakes etc so are in fact the same car. And how does the equivalent V10 Lambo stack up to the 997 turbo? I am really struggling to understand how Audi seems to have conned everyone into thinking they've done something extraordinary with the R8, and similarly the expectation that they will do something extraordinary with the R10?? The Audi marketing dept will be getting big bonuses this year for a job well done!
Often the 997 C2S is compared with the Ferarri F430 (surprise surprise another mid engined v8 car) and i've not heard much about the R8 vs F430 comparisons. That is either a compliment as Audi might see the 997 as the car to beat and not the F430, or they are scared to take the fight to the F430 so are focussing on the 997 battle.
Often the 997 C2S is compared with the Ferarri F430 (surprise surprise another mid engined v8 car) and i've not heard much about the R8 vs F430 comparisons. That is either a compliment as Audi might see the 997 as the car to beat and not the F430, or they are scared to take the fight to the F430 so are focussing on the 997 battle.
Before jumping to this conclusion of the R8 being the new king, consider what is likely in a few years from now....
I would hazard a guess that the R8 will look positively dated and need a new configuration/new gizmos whereas the venerable 911 will look as fresh as a daisy still churning out great performance.
Porsches are not only great sports cars, they are great EVERYDAY sports cars.
The 911 has been on the top of the pile since the 1970's. It is going to take more than the R8 (partly owned by Porsche themselves of course) to knock it off. Ferrari, Lambo etc have all tried, but their challenges are usually short lived. It is the simplicity of the Porsche philosophy that makes it so brilliant.
And if Porsche wishes to up the ante, they produce gems like the Carrera GT and put everyone in their place. Then just to show how they stick to their roots, they go back and tweak out more from a 911 e.g. GT3 and even GT2.
So my vote will remain with a 911. The king is very much alive.
And I don't even have a 911. I'm still with a Cayman S but always drool at the 997 Turbo.
I would hazard a guess that the R8 will look positively dated and need a new configuration/new gizmos whereas the venerable 911 will look as fresh as a daisy still churning out great performance.
Porsches are not only great sports cars, they are great EVERYDAY sports cars.
The 911 has been on the top of the pile since the 1970's. It is going to take more than the R8 (partly owned by Porsche themselves of course) to knock it off. Ferrari, Lambo etc have all tried, but their challenges are usually short lived. It is the simplicity of the Porsche philosophy that makes it so brilliant.
And if Porsche wishes to up the ante, they produce gems like the Carrera GT and put everyone in their place. Then just to show how they stick to their roots, they go back and tweak out more from a 911 e.g. GT3 and even GT2.
So my vote will remain with a 911. The king is very much alive.
And I don't even have a 911. I'm still with a Cayman S but always drool at the 997 Turbo.
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