996TT Spoiler Prob - any help?

[msdriscoll]

Hi Folks - appreciate any help / views on this one - thanks in advance.

I'm Mark, PCGB member for coupla years. R5/R18 member. Got a snag with my 996TT spoiler. Few months back, warning light came on and then off again. No big deal. Then happened some more. Then spoiler not working.

Googled it and found that an American lad had posted article on how to rebleed system, which I did and got it working. Then went again. Rebleed and now terminal.

Indy is quoting £1300 to sort. I've done a deal with OPC (£1200) combined with major service. But my q is

- anybody any experience of this?
- is it possible just to replace rams / or pump / or lines? My research tells me it comes as one complete unit?
- £1200 - £1300 seems excessive? Any views? Reluctant to part with this cash in case problem repeats but reassured by 2yr OPC warranty.
- fixed spoiler options as permanent solution??

Any help or views gratefully appreciated. Thanks for reading and thanks for helping.

Cheers, Mark

 

[Richard_Hamilton]

Hopefully Minny will be along with his experiences, but it is a common problem. He did a DIY for the Technical Articles section, but you will need to get your forum status upgraded to 'PCGB Member' in order to access that section.

Best bet is to contact an Admin with your membership number and forum name. Links at the top of the main forum menu page.

 

[ArBee]

Hello Mark,

I had a spoiler failure like you. First the fault was intermittent and then a full blown failure.

I never paid anywhere near what you have been quoted and I'm damned if I can remember what was causing the fault. I'll check my receipt tonight when I get home from work.

RB

 

[Richard_Hamilton]

Mark's is a Turbo, Ron, and has all the hydraulic paraphernalia. Arms and legs are involved.......

 

[ArBee]

Oops - didn't know that Richard - Thought mine was a turbo without the turbo?

RB

 

[924nutter]

Lets agree that Porsche do not specialise in hydraulic rams; it follows that the rams and probably the pump are proprietary items. Providing the ram bores are not scored then anything is possible in terms of resealing and I guess you consider yourself competent or you wouldn't be asking. There are going to be many pplaces that specialise in hydraulic seals and replacement vanes if it is a vane driven pump. For example there used to be a place in slough where we got our pump spares from, called Krug Power. It all starts with getting the pump and rams out and seeing whats what. The rams and pumps may have Id numbers on them, if they are off the shelf units. In theory they could be serviced depending on your skill level. If my spoiler packs up messers Porsche will not be recieving £1200 of my money before I have had a look to see if they are servicable from std parts. Over my dead and rusty spanners.

 

[Richard_Hamilton]

My mistake, it wasn't a DIY by Min. It was his running report which showed the bit that breaks in the hydraulic pump: http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=686429

 

[ArBee]

Hello Chaps - for what its worth - my spoiler failure was a relay and for the spoiler (C4S) there are 2. Cost? £10.21 each plus the VAT

RB

 

[minny]

Hi Mark, this is copied from the post in the Technical Section. I hope it helps.


For those with a turbo, here is some information about the spoiler warning light to help self diagnosis if you don't have Durametric/PIWIS or PST2 if it comes/stays on.

The ECU does a self check everytime the car is started and if there is a fault in the system the light will stay on. If it goes out but comes on later when the spolier is supposed to rise at 75 mph but doesn't then it is a fault with the pump/rams or lower microswitch.

If it rises normally but then the light comes on as it hits the bottom stop then it may be the upper microswitch that is faulty.

The lower microswitch is a NO (normally open) switch i.e the circuit is open until the switch is pressed then the circuit is closed. The upper switch is NC (normally closed) so the circuit is closed until the switch is pressed and it opens the circuit.

Normally when the rams are down, the bottom microswitch is closed and upper one is open (as the ram is pressing on both microswitches) . As the ram rises, it is no longer pressing on the lower microswitch so its open but the rams is still pushing on the upper microswitch so its open too. There is a situation when both are open until the ram hits the top then the upper microswitch is now closed (as the ram is no longer pushing on it) and the bottom one stays open.

So its either one or both open at any one time normally. The spoiler warning light will come on if both micrositiches are closed at any one time. If the light comes on as the ram hits the bottom stop and doesn't come on if the car is started with the spoiler up, both switches must be closed when the rams were at the retracted position i.e the upper switch was not clicking to open the circuit therefore its the upper switch that is faulty.

If there is no warning light but the spoiler fails to rise then both the lower and upper microswitch must be faulty as the faulty lower microswitch must register as open and the faulty upper one must register as closed so the ECU thinks the spoiler is up.

In my car the spoiler had been playing up for a while then it only rose one side after that and it turned out to be the pump that failed. I opened up the pump and a plastic bit had broken. The faulty microswitches must have precipitated the problem as the microswitches tell the ECU when the spoiler is up or down and instructs the pump to stop working when the limits are reached. Failing microswitches don't so the pump keeps trying to turn and the stress on it broke the only plastic bit in it requiring a new pump and lines at a cost of £1000 + vat.

It all sounds a bit confusing above but hopefully it'll help someone whose warning light has come on and wants to try to self diagnose the problem.

 

[msdriscoll]

Hi All,

Thanks so much for everybody's help with this one - especially the technical article with the photos of the failed pump which was really really good - thanks. (I've had my membership status 'upgraded' for some reason it said guest of hte club but that's all now been sorted so I can access the closed-off areas of the site.

Here's a bit more of a description of the problem. Several months ago, spoiler activiation warning light came on during motorway transit. Stopped car. Ignition off, keys out, ignition on again - no issue.

Then all fine for another few weeks. Then spoiler only went half way down. Then sorted itself out again. Bizarre.

Then wouldt raise or lower via the dashboard override switch. So I followed this article http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/996-turbo-forum/238455-996-tt-rear-spoiler-problems-help-3.html written by an American lad. I drained the hydraulic pump and refilled with hyraulic oil and also added a leak sealant. First attempt - nothing happened. Then refilled it and system worked. Worked for a while and then stopped.

Few weeks later, refilled again. This time it didn't raise perfectly level. Then went terminal.
There is a slighht leak from the hyraulic lines. When I use hte override switch, you can hear hte pump whirirng (both raising and lowering) so that leads me to think the microswitches are fine. Certainly lines leaky and possible rams leaky too on nearside.

So, did my research and apparenyly they only come for sale as one unit (pump, lines and rams). Phoned two indys £1300 and £1350. I've done a deal with my OPC who will do it for £1200 (if I go ahead with it). Part comes with a 2 year warranty providing its fitted by Porsche.
My OPC said they can't try to recommissoin / repair hte system - also both indys have said the score is to "repair by replace with whole new unit"

So, what do you think guys? It's a '51 996TT so the system is obv 12 years old. Should I go ahead and fork out the £1200 (total price inc VAT)? Leave it? And, as a wild card, what about fixed spoiler??

All constructive advice, views and guidance very gratefully received.

As above, thanks again for reading and thanks for helping.

Cheers all, Mark

 

[minny]

I fixed mine as I like my cars to work as they should. That said £1200 is a lot of money. Only you can decide whether to spend the money now or spend sightly less on a fixed spoiler but can affect the resale value later. If you go the whole hog and replace the pump, ram and lines then the likelihood of the problem recurring in the time you own the car would be slim.

 

[msdriscoll]

Hi Minny - cheers mate. Yep, I plan to get it fixed for following logic:

1. Yep, obv want it to work (who wouldn't?! )) and that spoiler failure light is irritating.

2. Although £1200 sovs is a lot, they've got me by the wotsits. The best any indy can get the parts for is £1k (excluding VAT) and then there's obv labour to fit. So for OPC dealer to do it at £1200 *all in* sounds reasonable. Well, still offensive cost but I guess it's all relative!

3. Get 2 year warranty with OPC in case it goes again (finger crossed)

4. Given age of car (12 years), the old spoiler has had good innings.

5. Re-sale value - yep, trying to keep it looking original. Although I have taken off the front turbo splitter and had a C4S one fitted because it's more practical for driving on public roads IMHO (i.e. potholes = driving on the surface of the moon)

6. I found out the other day that Porsche have actually "changed" the design of the pump, lines and rams *twice* now since the original '6TT so am hoping the new design has evolved.

Thanks all. getting the work done in acoupla weeks. Combinign with major service, sparks, brake fluid, belt, and an oil flex leak. Total cost £2236. Treat myself. Pleasure / pain - usual score.

Cheers all and thanks for advice and guidance.

PS Couple of after thoughts.

A-T1: Any point in selling my old rams, lines and pump (ebay?) for parts, or a project for somebody to fix? Obv would market it with full health warnings?

A-T2: If anybody reading this thinks I'm making a huge mistake and am getting ripped off then please pipe up loud and clear!!! I'm making the phone call in the next coupla days to go snap on the deal.

Cheers all, Mark

 

[richard hall]

Just came across this and it tickled my interest

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/996-turbo-gt2/314626-spoiler-thread-difference.html


I will certainly attempt this if i have the same problem in the future