996 Understeer

[gaxor]

To kick off proceedings, what is the opinion of other 996 owners, when Top Gear magazine recently berated the 2002 996 due to its marked understeer characteristics, compared to the traditional oversteer associated with other " 911' s" resulting in the 996 being downgraded as one of the most desirable cars?

As I am about to embrak on my first track-day in the 996 (Previously owned a 993) I would be interested to hear your comments

 

[Mike Butler]

When I did a back to back against my Boxster S on the same familiar roads in a MY2002 996C2 I found the amount of understeer surprising compared to the traditional oversteer of 911s... Very strange!

 

[Guest]

I' ve read a lot about this on various American forums, and the concensus seems to be " tyres and tyre pressures" . I would discount the tyre issue until you' re well into track day experience, but I would look for tyre pressure advice in PCGB - there must be loads of people who can help. In fact I wouldn' t risk a track day without treating this issue as a priority - for handling generally - not just understeer.

I can' t say I' ve noticed understeer on 996s, but then I' m a very tolerant bloke..... Last twitchy car was a 356 in ' 56 - which no doubt renders my advice invalid!

 

[Guest]

Are we talking about just 2002 cars or ALL 996' s ?

 

[gaxor]

The article in question was specifically relating to the 2002 model, with the revised suspension and upgraded engine. Personally, I think a degree of understeer may have been dialled in deliberately, in order to make the car more benign in general use, after all, arguably better the have the car correct itself when lifting off the throttle, than swapping ends - what do the others think?

 

[Mike Butler]

That may be the case but I didn' t find it to be a problem on a C4S or Turbo, only the C2. Maybe the more ' hardcore' 996s have this dialled out again......

 

[Guest]

I recently drove a friend' s 2002 996 C2 and this could explain why it felt different to my 1999 996. Mine just felt more positive and snappy and altogether better on the limit. No difference when pottering around town though - just seemed less confident when pushed. Mind you mine' s a C4 so it' s likely to feel different anyway (I suppose). I actually preferred the feel of my Boxster S to the 2002 996, but prefer the feel of my 996 to the Boxster S!

 

[Charlie_McLaughlin]

Gaxor,

Like you, I have also experienced an awful amount of understeer in my 996C4. I used to have a Boxster S and driving the same roads in my 996, the understeer is quite pronounced especially around roundabouts, I thought it must be the wet but its the same in the dry. I have checked the tyre presssures and they seem to be correct. I have the sports suspension and wheels spacers, a friend suggests making sure the petrol tank is full when I do my first 996 track day on 31 May at Goodwood.

 

[Guest]

Here' s my comments for what they' re worth.

I think petrol weighs about 0.7kg per litre, so a full tank would be about 45 kg.
With this over the front axle it would make a difference to the balance.
How long it makes a difference for depends on how fast you use it up []

There was a review of the C4S in the March edition of Car magazine, but they made no mention of understeer (I doubt MY2003 is any different).
I would imagine it is possible to get more understeer with 17" wheels, compared to 18" , since the sidewall is taller.

The only other thing I can think of is whether the PSM trickery can influence it?

Tyre pressures will be the main influencing factor on a track since the tyres generate more heat than on the road. If the tyres are cold they will be under pressure and you would expect more work to be done by the shoulders and hence slide wide, otherwise if too hard the wear will be in the centre (looking at the tyre wear and feathering of the blocks will give you a clue).
A Boxster may be less susceptible to this.

There' s not enough info to form a firm opinion as to the cause, since it seems not everyone' s experience is the same.

Rgds, Stuart.

 

[gaxor]

It would seem that maybe the car used by " Top Gear" magazine was not set-up correctly, it was a Carrera 2, with a fixed rear wing.

A similar test was published in this months EVO magazine, and only the Radical was judged to be better than the same model 996 C2, (again with a fixed rear wing). - Vindication at last!

 

[Mike Butler]

It would seem that maybe the car used by " Top Gear" magazine was not set-up correctly, it was a Carrera 2, with a fixed rear wing.

A similar test was published in this months EVO magazine, and only the Radical was judged to be better than the same model 996 C2, (again with a fixed rear wing). - Vindication at last!

But they both had sports suspension fitted...... This must be the difference here. Sport suspension must remove the ' dumbing down' of the oversteer that the MY2002 996 seems to have aquired. Shame that Porsche thinks we can' t be trusted unless we really really want a sports car!

 

[NicD]

Charlie,

I warned you not to go for a 996!

Seriously, I drove a C4 on a Porsche demo day around the Millbrook mountain circuit and found it markedly less precise than my Boxster S. However when Alan McNish drove me (in the same car) around the Handling circuit it was oversteer heaven - I wouldnt dream of hanging the tail out like this. He switched the PSM off and casually chatted away to me. So in the hands of an expert, it was superb, in my hands not quite so impressive.

Nic

 

[Charlie_McLaughlin]

Cheers Nic,

You fill me with confidence, if you weren' t able to control it, what chance have I ?

To be fair though I have only driven it hard on wet or cold roads, maybe when it warms up it will have the beating of Boxsters S' s.

Goodwood 31st May here I come ???

 

[Mike Butler]

I guess it' s the same with all of our cars, we need to confidence that a track/airfield days give to push them to the limits so we can learn where they are. I certainly found the airfield day I did taught me a lot about my S. I was very very impressed but it showed me that I was only driving it @ 75% of its limit at my ' limit' .... When I took a 450bhp 996 Turbo around the GT circuit at Bedford I was rubbish and then when the PCarsGB test driver took me out it was awesome!

 

[gaxor]

Update

Well, took the car for its first track-day yesterday at Goodwood. Dry track and bright weather. The car is a standard(?) 996 C2 Coupe without traction control or any of the other fancy stability control features.

First session of 5 laps the car (and possibly me) was very unsettled. Rear tyres were new, (120 miles) which was part of the reason, but pressures were at 48PSI rear and 39PSI front (Hot) Reduced pressures to 46(R) & 37(F) and next session was vastly improved.

As for understeer - no way! As soon as you nailed the power the car turned-in progressively.

The car was superbly behaved, and in my opinion was at least as good if not better than the 993 I had previously.

 

[Mike Butler]

So no sports suspension? I wonder if it' s just certain batches then? Have you driven a pre MY02 996 recently to be able to compare? I must admit being slightly disappointed when I took a MY02 996 out but if it' s certain batches (perhaps early models) then I may have to revisit my OPC and try again....

 

[Mike Butler]

I took a C4S out today... .NO understeer! Perfectly balanced.... Hmmmmmmm.. Where' s my cheque book.