993RS FRONT SUSPENSION ...

[jason]

Totally disagree Des. Think you will find plenty of owners who are happy with their road and track set up and on both surfaces.

If you had Melvs cup car set up I'd guess it wasn't very road friendly...melv trailers his car!

If you have good suspension and good set up it's fine on both.

Think this thread shows that IN YOUR OPINION 964RS can only be at up for either....[]

 

[rs phil]

i find oe 964 rs suspension great since manthey put there setup on it,before then it was all over the place

i run mine on 18 bbs,and i think 17 mags it drives alot better with,i havent tried mags with a cup tyre,but i feel the front end is better on track as the tyre loads up better for the weight of the car???

i have been in a 964 rs around the ring with kw and it was sooooo smooth it was like a different car,had manthey setup also

maybe 993 setup with 18s would be nice????

 

[Hacki]

ORIGINAL: jason

Think this thread shows that IN YOUR OPINION 964RS can only be at up for either....[]

That´s only half the truth. A track set up works on track perfectly and a road set up works on the road.

But: Also for a 964 RS (and a Cup car) a compromise exists. It´s not as fast on track as a pure track set up and not as easy on the road as a pure "road" set up. But it makes track and road possible.

That compromise is not so easy to find. But once you have it, it´s fine. Before having found it, you don´t believe it´s possible. Whatsoever, the shocks´rebound rate will still be a problem.

Rgds,

Hacki

BTW: From what I saw in Spa last year, Mel´s set up is a track set up, which works on a modern track only. I think, it wouldn´t work on the Nordschleife, let alone a B-road!

 

[h_____]

ORIGINAL: jason


If you had Melvs cup car set up I'd guess it wasn't very road friendly...melv trailers his car!

Melv also runs slicks which requires a very different setup. Whatever GT1 did, I suspect it had long slipped away by the time it came to me. I thought fighting the car was the way RSs are, now I know different - the car is transformed.

Anyway, I guess the main thrust of the thread is that a 964 RS on 993 RS front struts is a more compliant car, when both are setup properly for the road.

And actually I cant comment on that - but I guess it sounds about right.[]

 

[Schleicher]

I put 993RS front spring/dampers on mine, at the time I bought it in 1998 it was the "recommended" mod for road driving from German Tuners. UK tuners seemed to take the existing dampers and "re-valve" them. I thought that for the road the 993RS front bits were less skittish and I found that "better", to my taste anyway.

Robert

 

[carreraboy]

Not just mine Jason be read ALL the others mate .....

 

[jason]

All 964RS owners will be running out tomorrow for them then I'm sure [8|][8|]

 

[Tony]

Did it years ago, recommended by a whole range of tuners and chassis experts before there were the range of after market springs/dampers now available.
Biggest gain was at the end of long Lincolnshire straights when braking hard from 3 figure speeds it stopped the abs continually activating.
Not that I personally ever went as fast as that of course!

 

[Barty964rst]

Tony,
I noticed a big difference when I drove your car with the 993 RS front suspension on the Total 911 shoot earlier this year. Especially when braking, it was a lot more planted.

 

[Tony]

Thanks Simon,
Given your 2 cars your probably well placed to judge.

.Most people aren't able to leap into a large number of RS's in a short time on the same roads and certainly not with the same tyres, setup, degree of wear etc. so this sort of discussion is always going to be pretty subjective.

As Hacki has said it's a compromise, nobody has yet come up with a car optimised for road and track (smooth, bumpy, twisty, slow fast etc) and on car who's basic design is a compromise it certainly won't happen.

Listen to peoples experience, observe what they do and make your own choices - then be prepared to change your mind as you and your expectations change.

End of sermon[]

 

[PhilRS]

Jason,

Stop pottering about! Drive a stock 964 RS a bit faster on the road and you will see Des' (and others) point about its jumpy front end. [][][][][]

Seriously, have you never felt, in the middle of a curve, that your front wheels were not touching the road, due to a sudden dip in the tarmac?

ORIGINAL: jason

Totally disagree Des. Think you will find plenty of owners who are happy with their road and track set up and on both surfaces.

If you had Melvs cup car set up I'd guess it wasn't very road friendly...melv trailers his car!

If you have good suspension and good set up it's fine on both.

Think this thread shows that IN YOUR OPINION 964RS can only be at up for either....[]

 

[jason]

Tbh no.

Maybe my cars just had decent set up?

Or maybe I'm a slow coach...will be the first time I've ever been called that though.

Ollie what was yours like? Did you feel it jumping about all over the place? Yours was probably set up by chris too? Didn't look too slow around spa or at 160mph on the way home!!!

 

[jason]

The only cars I've ever had that felt unstable on the roads at high speed were the GT3 where the front end felt light in comparison and a 944S2 which I finally got down to horrible Pirelli tyres!

 

[Laurence Gibbs]

I'm with those who suggest that the 64RS front end could be better . Hence the reason I went with KW's. There is nothing wrong with the standard set up, just that things have moved on and and subsiquent RS have had better on road manners. Of course those with lower than standard ride height, greater camber angles and steering heading to zero toe won't be friends with the road much anyway.

 

[PhilRS]

Jason, set-up (i.e. geometry) is not the main issue here.

This main issue is the rebound of the stock front shock which is too dampened and cannot track fast "frequencies" in tarmac undulation.

So, yes, either you have not tried hard enough yet, or the roads around you are particularly smooth... [][] or you might have non-stock front dampers [][][]

ORIGINAL: jason

Tbh no.

Maybe my cars just had decent set up?

Or maybe I'm a slow coach...will be the first time I've ever been called that though.

Ollie what was yours like? Did you feel it jumping about all over the place? Yours was probably set up by chris too? Didn't look too slow around spa or at 160mph on the way home!!!

 

[jason]

Roads around me are pretty rough and my country route has lots of cambers?

Can't comment on dampers as car was sold although did have totally new front suspension after my little bump.

Was totally planted though at high speeds in some dubois corners.

Maybe I should buy it back!!!!

 

[ChrisW]

ORIGINAL: Hacki

ORIGINAL: PhilRS

BTW, it is well documented that front rebound on the original set up could not cope with fast oscillations.

It´s well documented on everybody´s memory who experienced it once!

Hacki, I have Cup front dampers and standard RS/NGT rear ---will the fronts be the dual spring RSR ones Phil ?

 

[Hacki]

ORIGINAL: ChrisW

ORIGINAL: Hacki

ORIGINAL: PhilRS

BTW, it is well documented that front rebound on the original set up could not cope with fast oscillations.

It´s well documented on everybody´s memory who experienced it once!

Hacki, I have Cup front dampers and standard RS/NGT rear ---will the fronts be the dual spring RSR ones Phil ?

AFAIK Cups always had single springs.

Hacki

 

[ianmcg]

This seems like a timely thread for me too...

I had the Clubsport at Brands with Sean Edwards a few weeks back and the executive summary was that even he was struggling with the front end. Coming out of clearways and turning into to paddock was a real problem. We concluded that the dampers are knackered or there is a problem with the spings especially left front - it's definitely not right compared to others he's driven and the geometry has been done so it's not that.

I'm sure I can get the standard suspension on there rebuilt etc but having put KW Clubsports on the GT3 I am seriously thinking about them for the CS. I know it's going to compromise the originality so vic will be cross with me, so I promise to box up in the originals in tissue paper so it's reversiable, but they aren't visible from outside and technology really has moved on. On the GT3 they are fantastic - for example braking from 150+ it was rock solid compared to scrabbling being all over the place before - even after a proper setup.

I see there are a few KW users around here but any reason I shouldn't or any better plan??? I use Jaz who were not that familiar with KW as he uses JRZ on the race stuff but I need to do something - I might be able to get a deal on the JRZ stuff but KW's will do the job.

Comments much appreciated...



Ian

 

[chfs911]

Ian,

Also look at the H&R dual spring "RSR". You can tune the helper spring to suit road use or track. The main spring takes over on bigger bumps so you get good all round performance.