993 power upgrades

[Poon]

Hi All,

I need some help and guidance.

I have had my 993 for 600 miles now and am getting used to the power (used to have a 964 with chip and exhaust), am therefore thinking about improving the performance.

budget is up to £5k
Would like to improve throttle response and pickup.
Am more interested in torque than bhp improvement as I feel that mid range punch is what I use more on the road.

So far I have spoken to Jonas at JZ Machtech, he looked after my 964 (great guy and company) and he feels that I may not see a great deal of difference with a chip and exhaust, I went out in a Roock 3.8l car prepared by them and it was awesome, just what I want but will cost over £12k with a top-end.

Next I spoke to Tech9 in Hale who have intoduced me to a techart conversion (ECU, Throttle body, airbox and exhaust) that lifts the bhp to approx 295bhp and the torque up to 350lb per sq ft!!!!!!!! This for only £3500 plus vat.

This seems really good?

What does anyone else think, experiences of this upgrade, any other options etc.

TIA

 

[Guest]

Hi Poon,

The " 350" Phil mentioned will have been Nm, you will not see 350lb-ft from a 993 engine unless you bolt a supercharger or turbocharger to it.

Geoff Everett does ECU re-chip work to give figures about the same as those you can get from the Roock and Techart ECU upgrades, but for less money. He used to be at AmD but has gone independent, this month' s 911&Porsche World has his new contact details on the news page (sorry, don' t have a copy to hand). I had this done on my 993 and ended up with 292hp (was 280) & 255lb-ft (was 246), the torque is improved throughout the range. Worthwhile for the (relatively) small cost.

Spending £5k would get you close to supercharger territory, which is around £6.5k - take a look at the 9m racing website www.9mracing.co.uk for more info and talk to Colin Belton.

If you have £5k to spend you' d probably be better off allocating a good chunk of it to suspension work, the Bilstein PSS-9 kit plus a set of RS adjustable anti-roll bars make a huge improvement to the car.

 

[Poon]

John,

I did wonder! Must clarify exactly what figures I am likely to get and perhaps ask for a before and after curve comparison charts.

I wanted a bit more poke and a better sound, might have to settle for a chip and exhaust, as the tech9 techart kit I mentioned doesn' t sound as though it will make that much of a difference.

I know of Geoff Everitt, from my Vdub days and have seen the article in 911 world. As a matter of interest and for comparison, what exactly did Geoff do to your car and how much did it cost.

My car has had a sports suspension kit consisting of lowered springs, not sure about the dampers.

The RS anti-rollbars seem like a good idea as I does seem abit soft, might need to uprate the dampers as well.

 

[vic cohen]

On the suspension i run a 993 rs as a day to day car i enjoy it but the passengers complain [no way as hard as 964 rs] although its all personal, i owned a 993 with 17 " rims and the suspension ex factory with marginally shorter H&R ,slightly stiffer ,was best allround road set up as well as track day acceptable, on Pirrellis at time ,front roll bar softest, rear hardest, adjustments for track day feel is nice .I also have a GT2 chassis with abt %25 bhp /746 nm and thats even softer than the rs ..............if u want more power lots of routes but the suspension you ve inherited is one of the best .

 

[Guest]

You really should look at the 9M site and see what they are doing with MOTEC, porting of the heads, cams, even throttle bodies etc. They are getting some great hp numbers. MOTEC by itself is a bolt-on that can be removed for resale and will set you back around £5,000. Try here:http://www.9mracing.co.uk/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=NinemeisterContent&file=index&req=viewarticle&articleid=4&topic=4&articlename=MOTEC%20:%20How%20we%20work%20the%20magic

Bob Watson also knows his way around MOTEC. He also has a website.

The 993 exhaust is pretty good as standard. You won' t find big gains there - unlike the 964.

Check out the bad boys below - 964RS engines on throttle bodies from 9M.

Richard

 

[Poon]

Richard,

Thanks for the reply, I have seen the Motec conversion page for suggested and did consider it for my 964 (when I had it), couldn' t see a reference to the 993 so assumed it wasn' t possible. I' ll give them a call.

Will post a reply when I have.

Might now consider a small engine remap and some suspension mods as JohnM suggested.

 

[Guest]

I' ve been up the AMD route for years here' s my final spec:-

Original car 272 bhp C2 etc....

Engine:-

AMD chip and throttle body.
Milltek 2x100 cell cats with cross over (worth 10 bhp when fitted).
Milltek sports silencers.

On the same rollers about twice a year so figures are comparable at 306bhp and 360 - 370 lb/ft torque.

Suspension and brakes:-

Bilstein PSS9 kit
RS top mounts all ' round
RS rear anti-roll bar
RUF front anti-roll bar
322mm discs on front with std calipers, rear std.
decent pads and fluid
bespoke front brake cooling.

Aside front the top mounts (which are expensive and did compromise the road ride) the mods work well on the road. Good torque and lovely noise on cam.

On the track it is quick much faster than a std 993 and regularly dices with std GT3s.

With a budget of £5k you can achieve most of this, importantly the engine mods and PSS9 kit.

Happy modifying!!

 

[Guest]

Poon,

Geoff just did his std remap on my car, came to £352.50 incl VAT.

Other stuff I' ve had done:

- PSS-9 + RS bars + monoball top mounts
- strut brace
- Nylon front wishbone bushes (the rubber bushes were shot anyway)
- RS ride height & alignment
- Stainless braided brake hoses
- 993TT front brakes
- Techart brake cooling kit/fog lamps (the cooling benefit is somewhat questionable but it looks nice
- Sintered diff plates (the std plates were shot)
- Recaro SPG (most comfortable seat I have ever had in any car, but you need to be slim).
- " RSR" rear boxes courtesy of Gert at carnewal.com (see www.p-car.com for more, they sound very nice, very reasonably priced at around £350).
- MY02 996 " Carrera" 18" wheels
- MY02 Al/leather handbrake/gear lever (from Gert again)
- Atiwe airbag wheel with 40mm spacer (from Cargraphic via Phil at Tech9)

Once you start making mods it can be hard to stop []

 

[Poon]

Peter, John, Vic and Richard,

Thanks for the replies they are very much appreciated. John I did speak to Tech9 today re the techart ECU, etc kit and you are right the torque figure was in nm' s, that must mean that Peters fig' s from Geoff are also nm' s. Never the less it is not just about figures, but how the power is put down. Especially as I want to iron out the flat spot between 2500-4000rpm. The techart kit seems to do this as I am sure most decent ones will.

I also spoke to and read up on the 9M Motec concersion and although not available for the standard 993 3.6 will be in a month or so. Will be interesting to see how it pans out, however the guy at Tech9 said it was abit new/set up for track etc and that Techart have experience blah blah blah, however must be taken with a pinch of salt.

I really like the sound (pardon the pun) of the RS back boxes, and have read good things about them on the titanic site, likewise with the Milltek boxes.

Am letting Jonas at JZ take it out on Friday for an assessment, would prefer to let them do any work as I trust and know them.

On the suspension side I am glad you guys posted as I hadn' t given it much thought, probably because it has been lowered. However since you mentioned it I have been assessing the ride and there is definately room for improvement on the firmness of the damping/ride and on the turn in. We' ll see what Jonas reckons, when I had the car PPi' d the inspector (Brian Miller, who was also a previous owner) said it will need new front wishbone bushes, maybe I will go nylon.

I like the idea of better rollbars and a strut brace, must also check out the dampers.

I am not really a track day warrior, but keep meaning to do one in my Porsche (have done a few corporate days, Ferraris, porsches etc).

Will let you know how I get on with Jonas.

By the way where do you guys do your trackdays? And with who?

Thanks again.

 

[Poon]

Saw Jonas on Friday after my car passed its MOT (sigh of relief).

Jonas took the car out for a pretty hard drive, initial reactions were that I had bought a very good car, power delivery spot on for a standard 993, could do with a pep up in the mid range (2000-4000). Will probably get it re-mapped and maybe a sports exhaust, but am worried about exceeding 105db for any future trackdays. The car has got the Porsche sound kit upgrade (tips and airbox) and does sound quite good already.

Jonas reckoned that I would not experience too much of a boost in power by going with throttle bodies and ECU' s etc without a top end. Advised me to save my pennies.

On the suspension side he agreed that the Eibachs springs were awful (not progressive on hard cornering) and advised on a better set of springs and dampers (Roock of course), I have had a Roock kit b4 and they were very good for te road, which is where I spend 99.999999% of the time. because of this he also advised against RS roll-bars and nylon etc.

So conclusion, little re-map and a new suspension set-up.

Save the rest of my money for an RS.

 

[C V Read]

Funnily enough JZ just fitted my Roock suspension kit 2 weeks ago - haven' t had much of a chance to try it out but the handling feels far more controlled than previous setup (totally standard but in good working order) and ride quality is very good, although I was clear I wanted a street/long distance bias even at the expense of outright speed...

 

[Poon]

Exactly what I am looking for, as my 993 is my daily car.

Did you have the springs an dampers done?

by the way have you had any ECU work?

 

[C V Read]

yes - full kit with progressive springs and new dampers all round - I' m due to take it to Italy on saturday so wanted a ride/handling combination that sharpened up the cornering but didn' t shake the fillings out after 1/2 an hour.

It already had a front strut brace, which improved the originl setup quite a bit (but the car' s a targa, so that probably explains part of the gain).

JZ also liberated about 20bhp and 20lb ft which brought a noticable improvement for not much cash.

The best thing was JZ delivered exactly what they promised - wasnt oversold and gave what I needed.

- I' d be really interested to know what you get performance-wise though.

Charlie

 

[Poon]

They are good! Have used them for three years now. As a matter of interest was your power increase simply a chip? or was there more?

 

[C V Read]

it was pretty much 50% chip and 50% throttle opening adjustment after a bit of investigation swoed the car was struggling to break 260 bhp (& its a varioram...)

 

[Guest]

My C2S has a vario-ram engine with an upgraded airbox (porsche) & filter (BMC), 100cell sport catalysts, a free-flow sports exhaust (Cargraphic GT) and a matched engine management upgrade (Cargraphic) - all fitted/tested by an OPC. I' ve not had it tested myself but the previous owner did so and recorded a peak of > 315 Bhp.

After driving a number of non-vario-ram and vario-ram 993' s prior to finding the C2S, I found the performance improvement with these modifications very noticable, with almost exponential power delivery as it surges between 3500rpm and the 7200 limit, oh, and words cannot describe how she sounds - wonderful, simply does' nt do it justice...

Total cost - around £3500.

Peter.

 

[Guest]

Peter

Your post implies that the remap included raising the rev limit from std (6800) to 7200 rpm. This may account for your high bhp figure as most cars modified as you describe normally make between 305 - 310 bhp. Has the top end had any other work, eg, solid lifters, to support the raise in limit?

 

[Guest]

Peter,
Interesting point... particularly as I did not realise the RPM limit had been increased!

No, my car has not had any additional work done to my knowledge. Although I must say, as an OPC fitted the parts, I had assumed when buying the car that the modifications completed were effectively ' Porsche Approved' and hence would not be detrimental to the engines reliability.

So now knowing what I do and whilst appreciating that any performance mods typically compromise an engines longevity in some way, should I expect BIG problems with the car as it stands, due to its increased RPM limit?

thanks,
Peter

 

[C V Read]

Having just spent 2 weeks (1700 miles) on some of the best & worst roads in Europe I thought I' d add a bit on the Roock spring/damper setup.

Despite a slightly harsher ride on very bumpy surfaces, motorway comfort is much better and handling greatly improved on all types of road - the car feels much more controlled at speed and seems to have struck a decent balance between poise and long distance comfort - no new targa squeeks either!

 

[Mark_Bennett]

best & worst roads in Europe

Belgium and Germany then...[]