987S Residuals

[Delbox]

Took my 15 months old 987S back to the supplying OPC today - with a view to trading up to a used 911 996 Turbo Coupe, priced at £74,995. The offer for my car, which cost me £51,300 was....................







................£35,000! Taking into account my monthly finance payments, but excluding running costs, the 987S has cost me nearly £22,000! Don't let anyone tell you that the Boxster has strong residuals - or that options are worthwhile; it hasn't - and they aren't! I expected a loss, somewhere around £8000 plus my finance costs - a total of around £13,000 - but no, £22,000 loss.

So what am I going to do? Probably sell the Boxster and get out of what I thought was a premium brand - and return to the sanity of mainstream motoring!

Del []

 

[kitchens]

Sad fact is that all 996 986 987 are loosing a fortune and a trade bid on you car would be about £32k I am at present looking out for a car and with nothing to trade I am in a better position to do a deal,but agree Porsche are no longer the car they where in a lot of ways .

Brian

 

[Rotorhead]

The problem isn't unique to Porsche, but it is damaging to the Porsche image.

There is simply an over-supply of prestige cars (including BMW, Mercedes, Aston, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc) chasing too few customers.

On the flip side though, a nice £90,000+ 996TT, or GT3RS, is now at c.£60k, so it's all relative.

Buying new, speccing high, and selling short term can be very costly - good job the property and stock markets are still healthy, otherwise prices would be on the floor.

 

[Andrew Killington]

sorry to hear about your trade in offer[&o]
haven't seen a GT3 RS from an OPC under 69K
I still feel that Ferraris are holding up a little better than the other marques (if that's your bag)
Andrew

 

[Delbox]

Thought about a used 355 Spider but for £55k you get a P or R registered car with the bare minimum of warranty left. Ferrari UK seem to stop warranting their cars after 8 years. Could be a costly exercise - and the 355 isn't good to drive in traffic, I hear.

 

[HarryBox4899]

Sorry to hear that Del. I think the days of high residual premium brands are over. I have purposly restrained myself with my fothcoming 987S with the extras because theyre just not worth it in my view. Each to their own but did all those extras you had really enhance your experience of that car or seem worth it? The only reason i have decided to but a Porsche is for the pleasure of driving it and wont think of the residuals, although it sure is hard to swallow such a big loss.
The thing that would really rack me off is seeing it on the dealers forecourt with a huge mark-up!
Harry

 

[Alex Postan]

What's a Ferrari? I know that the Italian for iron worker is ferraro and iron worker = smith. So does that mean that an Enzo is a Smith GT?

 

[daro911]

[&o]

ORIGINAL: Delbox

Thought about a used 355 Spider but for £55k you get a P or R registered car with the bare minimum of warranty left. Ferrari UK seem to stop warranting their cars after 8 years. Could be a costly exercise - and the 355 isn't good to drive in traffic, I hear.

[] But the depreciation should be more bearable on a used 355 and if bought right could be enjoyed for 12 months and moved on with your wallet still pretty much intact. On the other hand doubt it will be as user friendly and practical as your well specced up 987 "S"

 

[JCB..]

ORIGINAL: Delbox

Took my 15 months old 987S back to the supplying OPC today - with a view to trading up to a used 911 996 Turbo Coupe, priced at £74,995. The offer for my car, which cost me £51,300 was....................
................£35,000! Taking into account my monthly finance payments, but excluding running costs, the 987S has cost me nearly £22,000! Don't let anyone tell you that the Boxster has strong residuals - or that options are worthwhile; it hasn't - and they aren't! I expected a loss, somewhere around £8000 plus my finance costs - a total of around £13,000 - but no, £22,000 loss.

So what am I going to do? Probably sell the Boxster and get out of what I thought was a premium brand - and return to the sanity of mainstream motoring!

Del []

Why not just keep the car?

JCB..

 

[daro911]

ORIGINAL: Delbox

So what am I going to do? Probably sell the Boxster and get out of what I thought was a premium brand - and return to the sanity of mainstream motoring!

Del []

Porsche Has Record 1st-Half Profit on New Sports Cars (Update4)
Jan. 27 (Bloomberg) -- Porsche AG, the automaker with the highest margins in the world, posted record first-half profit as customers bought new versions of the Boxster and 911 sports cars.

Net income in six months ending Jan. 31 rose 13 percent to 167.5 million euros ($204 million) from 148.3 million euros a year earlier, Stuttgart, Germany-based Porsche said in a statement today. Sales rose 15 percent to 3.3 billion euros.

Chief Executive Officer Wendelin Wiedeking rolled out new versions of the 911 and Boxster in 2004 and added the Cayman sports car last year to help make up for slowing sales of the Cayenne sport-utility vehicle. Porsche expects record vehicle sales this year and aims to maintain profit on a ``high level,'' he said. `We'll do all we can to ensure a strong profit this year,'' Wiedeking said in a speech prepared for the company's annual meeting today. ``We've reached a level of profitability that is far beyond that of all other car manufacturers.''

Porsche's profit margin is the greatest of any major manufacturer in the industry. The company's pretax margin was 18.8 percent in fiscal 2005, compared with 9 percent at Toyota Motor Corp., 9.3 percent at Nissan Motor Co. and 8 percent at Bayerische Motoren Werke AG. The pretax margin at Volkswagen AG, Europe's biggest carmaker, was 1.2 percent last year.

Shares Rise
Shares of Porsche rose as much as 21.18 euros, or 3.4 percent, to 651.47 euros and were up 2.7 percent at 647.50 euros as of 10:11 a.m. in Frankfurt. The stock has risen 6.7 percent this year, while Germany's CDAX Index has risen 5 percent.

Analysts surveyed by Bloomberg News had expected net income of 151 million euros. Porsche restated year-earlier profit figures.

``Porsche is showing once again that it can control the product cycle of its vehicles very well,'' said Patrick Juchemich, an analyst at Sal Oppenheim in Frankfurt, who has a ``buy'' recommendation on the stock. ``They continue to deliver and have even managed to slow down the decline of the Cayenne.''

Porsche said that, even with investment spending on the Panamera, it's ``optimistic'' about fiscal 2006 and expects vehicle sales to rise to 90,000 units from last year's 88,379 cars and sport-utility vehicles.

``The new sports cars are helping,'' said Michael Punzet, an analyst at Landesbank Rheinland Pfalz, before today's announcement. He has an ``outperform'' recommendation on the stock. ``Most people are underestimating the potential of the Volkswagen stake to help offset a slowdown in the rate of growth at Porsche.''

11 Years' Growth
Wiedeking has boosted earnings 11 years in a row at Porsche, helped in the past three years by the Cayenne. Fiscal 2005 net income increased to a record 779 million euros and sales increased 6.8 percent to 6.56 billion euros. First-half pretax profit increased 11 percent to 274 million euros, the company said today
.
The CEO spent 3 billion euros in 2005 to buy an 18.5 percent stake in Wolfsburg, Germany-based Volkswagen to help offset ``enormous'' costs for the planned Panamera four-door car and ensure future cooperation with its largest partner and supplier.

Porsche plans to increase shared projects with Volkswagen, including purchasing and production, Wiedeking said today. The dividend from the Volkswagen stake, which is lightly taxed, is worth more than the interest from the money Porsche used to buy the stake, he said. The sports-car maker aims to ensure that the stake returns at least 100 million euros annually.

Cayenne's Competitors
Cayenne sales have been declining as Porsche faces competition from new luxury sport-utility vehicles such as DaimlerChrysler AG's Mercedes M-Class and Toyota Motor Co.'s Lexus RX 330. Higher gasoline prices have also hurt sales of less fuel-efficient vehicles such as the Cayenne.

Porsche's first-half vehicle sales rose 17 percent to 41,750 units. Sales of the Boxster, including the new Cayman model, almost tripled to 9,740 units, while 911 sales increased 20 percent to 14,800 cars. Sales of the Cayenne declined 12 percent to 16,960 and sales of the Carrera GT, the company's most expensive model, fell 12 percent to 250 cars from 284 units.

Production of the Cayenne will decline by a ``few thousand'' units from last year's record of about 41,000 vehicles, Anton Hunger, a Porsche spokesman, said earlier this month.

The Boxster competes with Bayerische Motoren Werke AG's Z4 sports car and DaimlerChrysler's Mercedes SLK model. The Cayman is based on the Boxster.

The company today will ask shareholders at the annual meeting to approve a change to the governing code to allow it to buy foreign companies. Porsche is proposing a dividend payment of 5 euros for each preferred share.

 

[Guest]

Had similar experience on my 987. Bought ex-dem last March for £39,400 with >£7k of options. Was offered the princely sum of £24K. Has certainly spoiled the "Porsche experience" for me. Only option now is to hold onto the car. There are even some poor deluded souls on Autotrader wanting £30k plus for used 986s - dream on.

 

[Guest]

That 24k was probably before any haggling. OPCs I understand are seeking to make 5k on the car. No doubt it needed a service, a tweak, body work and allows tidying a little and a bit of margin for you to haggle. That would take it up to 30k on the forecourt. What was the base price of your car? 32k. So its dropped 2k. Bells and whistles may make the car seem nicer but the're worth nowt. Its still a 32k boxster. Why not put yours on autotrader at 29k and look good value. Then you've lost 3k off the value of the car.

Its not so much a lesson in the porsche experience but more that you can't resell spec.

PS you've spelt boxster wrong in your signature.

 

[garyw]

Worth remebering though as a percentage of value the first three years take the biggest hit [].
If your going to buy new and then move it on within that period, its just one of those things..I'm dreading trading mine in when it come to it, I know what I lost from the last one [:'(] ...

So Derek, have you seen the light[] , I sold my previous TT for less than your 987 [&:]...

garyw

 

[mojo]

It costs OPC's between 4 - 5K to prep cars to their standard for resale. They then have to figure in their margin.

 

[dawn lang]

It really is a sorry state of affairs isnt it.

With my first Porsche I lost almost nothing on it over 2 years and 20,000 miles. My second one has taken a bigger drop over a 2 year period and i'm expecting my next one to be a real shocker on depreciation.[:'(]

Porsche are mass producing in such a huge way now that none of us can expect to keep retain any kind of residual value.

However I personally believe that they are still the best car for the money. I went round looking for a 'gap' car yesterday and sampled the 'delights' of an MG TF, a Mazda MX5 and and Ka Convertible.

It's not fair to compare in any way but none of those cars lived even remotely up to my expectations. The trim in the 54 plate MG was falling apart, the MX5 felt way too claustrophobic and the Ka - well let's not go into that eh! []

Hence i've given up on a gap car and am using the 968 for work at the moment.

I'll be buying a 987 or a 987S at the end of this year when the summer prices are done with and do what I did before - buy an 18 month old car with 6 months of original warranty on it - and then wait for the car to continue to depreciate like a stone no doubt!

 

[daro911]

ORIGINAL: mojo

It costs OPC's between 4 - 5K to prep cars to their standard for resale. They then have to figure in their margin.

[] Who told you that? I can assure you when I px my car it doesn't cost an OPC a penny above the service cost and warranty. My cars don't even need a final polish [8D]

In the past I was told the usual everyday stuff needs about £2K for making good for retail and even that figure was over the top IMO example being OPC's want £75 per curbed wheel but I can get these fixed for £35. Parking dents removed at £75 per dent again I can get these done for £35 per panel! not even per dent.

What I find most interesting though is the residuals have crashed back big time but the OPC Sale Prices remain as high as ever! Greed springs to key board []

 

[juliany27]

ORIGINAL: mojo

It costs OPC's between 4 - 5K to prep cars to their standard for resale. They then have to figure in their margin.

I find that very odd. If an owner takes good care of the car and it is relatively new, there is little work to be carried out and the staff etc. are there anyway so that the cost would only be the cost of any materials and the lost income from them not doing other work. £4,000 - £5,000 work indicates that a lot of work would have had to have been undertaken and, IMO, there is some bovine excretia attached to this estimate.

Looks like a lot of profit for the OPC to me.

 

[Rotorhead]

ORIGINAL: mojo

It costs OPC's between 4 - 5K to prep cars to their standard for resale. They then have to figure in their margin.

Over the last 23 years I've had 15 Porsches, most bought and sold through my OPC, but several bought and sold privately, so I've become pretty familiar with the system. And my OPC have always been very candid about their pricing policy.

Basically, when an OPC buys a car in, they make a judgement on whether they want to retail it or pass it on through the trade. If a car is any way stigmatised (ie high mileage, high no. of past owner, accident repair, unofficial import, patchy history, tatty, odd colour/spec., etc) then they are unlikely to retail it themselves and it will be passed on for a nominal profit.

The cars they may wish to retail (ie tick all the right boxes) are assessed to establish whether they can be prepared to the required standards at a viable cost. This includes ensuring that everything is in perfect working order and the exterior and interior are perfect throughout. Some of the things they do seem quite pedantic (like painting the underside of the pu), but it is thorough and, in some cases, they have to add a warranty. The total prep costs can vary from £1000 to £5000+.

The price they then advertise the car leaves them a margin for negotiation, part ex, plus their net profit (typically £2500 to £5000 on most used cars) less the vat they have to pay on the difference. And, of course, they will want to be able to sell the car quite quickly (within 60 days). It is with all this in mind that they offer their 'trade in' prices.

It's all highly commercial, but not quite as 'theiving' as some people might expect.

Sellers can always try to sell privately, and they might make a bit more than a trade offer. But the more expensive the car the harder it is.

Buyers can buy privately and might make a useful saving, but it does require care. The premium one pays for a used OPC car should be reflected in the quality, convenience and protection.

Current prices are simply a reflection of the market. There has to be a useful saving on a nearly new car to justify it over a new, personally spec'd, model.

 

[JCB..]

Good post Oliver.

That's exactly how it was explained to me.

JCB..

 

[channella]

This is helpful info from Oliver. I don't think you can depend on a trade-in value as a measure of the level of depreciation; it is not the same market in which the vehicle will be sold. I guess the dealer would have priced it around at £40k plus. It might not be much solice, but I suspect actual depreciation would be "only" £15k? I've also got a feeling depreciation is non-linear. So it looses most value in the first year of its life. The 67% residual number previously publised for Boxsters is after 3 years I believe.

I'm not sure if a car can be overspecced as well - perhaps the dealer might not get the value back on all the add-ons? Many options are just cosmetic afterall, and have no effect on performace or drivability.