944 Turbo Cup

[nicksonmsport]

neil yes they certainly are an old fashioned design, and they are all bolt in cages that i have seen anyway! they also have many sleeve type joints which are not used so much these days.

it is certainly possible to create a better design rollcage, but when making a replica i suppose it would be nice to recreate the cage as it was made then, in appearance. but use more advanced materials and fixings etc.
a weld in cage, especially in t45 is preferable for protection and shell rigidity, but with full interior you loose a lot of the benefits of a weld in cage as it wont be tied into the body around the pillars and roof area as trim gets in the way etc.

my buisness is 99% custom rollcage fabrication, i just did a full t45 cage install into a high profile car last week, so i can fabricate any cage to any spec that i require, i just think it would be nice to do a replica of the matter cage so it looks ''right''
if i were building a race car, then it would always be a weld in cage that i would install.
but this is for my 944t rebuild, which i am liking the idea of building as a cup replica, that can be used on the road and track days. i intend to go racing in a 924 turbo i just bought, which is 95% ready prepped to race, and already has a full weld in cage installed, (that i will be modifying as im not happy with the quality)

 

[Copperman05]

Great looking car Hans, your making some of us here very envious. What are your plans with it?


Edd

 

[Melv]

Nice find!! Rudiger Schmitt drove my '91 Cup Car a few times.

I assume you have no Wagenpass with it? Me neither!!

5 second penalty, bah! He's still got two wheels on the Tarmac!![]

 

[hgo]

Hello all, and Melvin

nice to meet you here, i normally see you on the Rs forum...
Love your cup, but a nice 964 cup was to expensive for me these days, so i will have to do with the 944 cup
no also no wagenpass
I'm trying to get info from Strahle autosport, but difficult to get feedback since the original teamowner died

regarding the cage, I'm able to make some pics, i just need to know exactly what you want or need
the car is still fully original, even equiped withthe rear seat and delivered with the back of the rear seat loose with the car

plans are to get it on the road here in Belgium, always a very difficult and tricky task
cage, coilspring rear suspension, different wheels then the usual turbo make it hard to get it through MOT here
then it will replace my 964 as a club circuit car also, so that one can retire after Zolder to a nice weather drive car
but plans are to keep the 944 in stock specs, so no changes
i need to put if a bit higher to pass MOT...but not a lot (10mm)

I saw some cups before buying this one, lot of them rebuild to later race specs of converted to normal turbo road car again
hard to find an original non converted car with original seat, cage and suspension parts (and bonnet)

regards
Hgo

 

[Copperman05]

Melv,

You able to attend our revised track day date on 20th May at Bedford?


Edd

 

[Neil Haughey]

Sorry Nick I didn't understand what it was you were looking to achieve with it. Its not a half bad interesting design for keeping the car near to road trim and of course for historical accuracy it may actually make a lot of business sense to be able to offer such a thing, if I had a turbo it would definitely interest me. I have certainly found that my own race car IMHO has gone to far from what could be used as a multi purpose car and some of that is inevitable once one has X bars in the door aperture and no interior trim etc. (you can get wet when it rains as the holes in the original body shell are exposed for example). The 968 Matter cage I referred to is much more like a modern weld in design.

 

[944 man]

Im interested in the Cup cars and I always collect photos, but I wouldnt want an original style Matter cage in a current competition car. Remember when it was new you could still use alloy cages! Things have moved on...

 

[nicksonmsport]

your right in a current competition car you would want a full weld in multipoint cage, rather than a bolt in item. but as for a replica cup car, you would want to base the cage on the matter cage.

you could make an exact replica of the original matter cage in a modern spec material, with all the same fixings etc, and have a cage that would pass current fia/msa standards. so perfectly safe!

i build a lot of cages for historic vehicles, which have strict rules on the spec of the cage and what can and cant be used. basically the cages must be very similar to the cage used in the period the car was originally racing in. nearly always bolt in cages rather than weld in. the only thing you cant use is aluminium as a material to construct the cage from. so we use msa/fia compliant cds or t45 alloy tube.

as a rollcage manufacturer, i would base the cage on the matter item so it is very similar in appearance and construction, but with some slight alterations to ensure it was as safe as possible, for example the original harness tube in the matter cage was mounted far to high, and so the harnesses were at an unsafe angle, a current version would have the harness tube lower so as to ensure the angle of the harness was to current regs. they also used an eyebolt type fixing on top of the harness tube, this would be binned and wrap around style harness would be used.

its not so much an issue using an eyebolt type fixing on the cage, but more so the fact its installed vertically in the tube rather than horizontally. if u imagine the harness pulling on the eyebolt in an impact, it could snap it clean off, rather than try to stretch it when installed horizontally. in horizontal application the strength is from the harness trying to pull the threads out of the boss, which is nye on impossible.

little things like this are where the design can be improved and made safer, but the general shape and construction of the original matter cage is up to current standards!

 

[944 man]

I shuddered when I saw the eye bolts. I will guess that the bar was intended for wrap arounds and that the eyelets were added later by someone who didnt understand what 'tensile' meant. []

I understand the idea behind a replica, of course, but Id be looking at following the tube layout and revising the mountings. Id really like to get up close to one though as much of my opinion is based on 400x600 pixel pictures.

 

[Jonny944CS]

Lovely car Hgo.

I noticed your car (or at least the driver name) features on this poster - Publication # WWM 352810 11/89 - recently sold on US ebay:

Or in this video from the '88 race at the Norisring - your car at 2:11, 2:59 or 3:45 maybe?

Paul 'centerpunch' on Rennlist also has a very clean example (owned from new and never raced). His interesting thread searching for info on the US cars can be found here.

 

[nicksonmsport]

yes simon, hopefully an afterthought lol! i agree, im not a huge fan of the sleeve joints used, especially as they scratch the hell out of the paint when u install/remove! there are much better options out there, and more attractive ones too! like u say you need to see one up close to make an accurate evaluation.

 

[944Turbo]

ORIGINAL: hgo

now

I cant answer your question but would love to see more pics - especially of the special parts - lovely example!

Tony

 

[hgo]

anyone interested in this car?
needs to find another home because of the cup.
on autoscout24.be or mobile.de
regards
Hgo

 

[944 man]

If thats an honest 937 then Im far more interested in that than in the Cup car, but unfortunately Im no longer able to afford a Carrera GT.

 

[hgo]

indeed a real honest 937 CGT, real fun car, lot invested to get it mechanically in good shape again.
need to sell because lack of time and space for it
full known history, all invoices with the car since 1990
full engine and gearbox rebuild, new original Porsche cloth interior redone, no cracked dashboard