944 TURBO CLUTCH PROBLEMS!!

[james palmer]

hi, ANYBODY out there have had any trouble etc with their clutch etc etc.
i have a 1989 944 Turbo 250 SE CONVERTED TO TRACK SPEC.
MY first trackday was at Region 27 N.ireland on sat.past.
After doing about 10 or so laps my clutch just suddenly went away!!! seemed to go into the floor,NO SLIPPING ETC ETC BEFORE HAND AND NO BURNING CLUTCH SMELL.
the marshalls kindly pushed my car into the infield out of harms way!!!. i then left the car for 30mins to cool down,and then started car up.THE CAR WENT INTO FIRST GEAR AND I WAS ABLE TO DRIVE IT THE SHORT JOURNEYof 1 mile home!!

ON FURTHER INSPECTION on mondat nite i noticed fluid (prob clutch fluid) over the top of the join in the twin manifolds.
this makes me wonder is it A HYDROLIC LEAK? IS IT FROM master cylinder?

I would be veryG RATEFUL FOR ANY INFO OR ADVICE ON THIS MATTER

Regards james p

 

[homesea]

Sounds like the master as the slave is right down the bottom in the clutch hosing. It could be the pipe that links the two, part of it is solid pipe and part flexi rubber.

You probably pulled air into the cylinder due to hole in the pipe/cylinder seal then after a bit of pumping/time the air moved higher up like into the res. Will happend again if left and one day you will find the all fluid on the floor under the car and the clutch pedal all the way down.

On a side note anyone know why they have a micro switch attached to the clutch pedal??

 

[os951]

Check out hoses and gaskets.Just changed both cylinders rubber parts.I used Mercedes W124 parts, which is a direct swap.Get those from local parts store right away and cost about 10£.Porsche parts i should wait few days...

Micro switch is there to de-activate cruisecontrol.

 

[chrisg]

James



Really sorry to hear your woes... Hope this hasn't put you off trackdays ! This sounds very much to me like hydraulic failure somewhere between the Master Cylinder and the Slave cylinder.



You described fluid just above where the two manifolds join, my first guess is that the black flexi rubber hose that joins the hard pipe at the back of the camcover to the master cylinder has perished/ expired.



My advice would be depending on how mechanical/ good with spanners:



1. Buy a gunson's easibleed system

2. Purchase a replacement flexi hose - best to go to www.partsforporsche,co.uk and buy a replacement slave cylinder as well.

3. If funds allow I would also recommend purchasing a replacement Master cylinder

4. If you haven't already got, buy yourself a 10mm brake spanner (thick spanner with a slot in to slide over the hydraulic line)

5. Jack the car up at the front and ensure you have sufficient room underneath to lie on the floor - use axle stands !

6. Disconnect the battery

7. Undo the various wires attached to the starter motor - if in doubt take photos on your phone for reference later.

8. Remove the heat shield for the starter motor - total bitch of a job, 2 x 8mm nuts and 3 x 17mm bolts. The twins that are next to each other on the bellhousing don't have to be removed completely.

9. Remove starter motor - be careful it's heavy....

10,You now have access to the slave cylinder 2 x 13mm bolts. easier to remove the hard pipe first before removing the slave cylinder.

11. Up to the top of the car, remove the flexi rubber hose - if you're struggling to undo this, as it's completely shot don't be afraid to hack it off so you can get a full ring spanner onto the 17mm nut where it joins the hardpipe just off the cam cover.

12. Remove from master cylinder using brake spanner.

13. Removal/ replacement of the master cylinder is awkward as you have to be under the dash - sliding circlip that holds the pin in place. Once this is out, 2 x 13mm bolts holding it into the bulkhead.

14. Reconnect the hydraulic system and bleed - in between bleeds, worth pumping the pedal and tapping lightly both cylinders and pipes to free any trapped air.

15. You can if you need to re-bleed the system with the starter motor in place - tricky but it can be done.

16. Refit Starter motor - job's a good un.



This is a very abbreviated and potted list - clarks garage gives a much more comprehensive description, if you do get stuck - feel free to ring me !



Yours



Chris



Chris Grahame
Mobile: 07540 193874

 

[james palmer]

MANY THANKS!! ANY INFO IS VERY VALUABLE AT this stage!!!!

 

[james palmer]

MANY THANKS CHRIS!!!! I mite just have to EMPLOY YOU FULL TIME!!!

I thought on SAT. that my Trackday/race career was OVER!!!

 

[mike220]

Gents, is that true that the Merc W124 parts are interchangable ? Is it the whole cylinders or just the internals ? I'd be very happy if that's the case, as I'm on a tight budget just now, and this (plus my fuel line) is what's keeping the car in the garage for the moment.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[chrisg]

Oh well, there you go then fella ! You're an expert with the spanners so your shouldn't need too much assistance ! Apologies if I came across as patronising or made things too simplistic. When people ask for help via the 944 Forum, I never quite know what level to pitch it at.

For certain jobs on the 944 Turbo or S2 I'm more than an 'expert' having done them numerous times, others, I wouldn't know where to start.


Hopefully the steps I've outlined and the bits to fix your problem will be helpful.

With regard to the heatshield for the Starter motor, my advice for removing this and replacing it, given that it's held in place by one of the 17mm bolts that connects the torque tube to the bell-housing:

1. Buy yourself a 17mm socket spanner - as the name implies a socket on a spanner - trident tools make them and they're available via E-bay for ~ £15 invaluable for this job and will save you time.
2. If you haven't one or ready buy a 1/2" or 3/8" extension bar that has the wobble bar end, thereby allow the socket to sit at an angle(not as much as a flexi drive) but enough to allow access to bolt or nut with being 100% square on.
3. Once you've removed the starter motor heat shield, where the bolt in part 1. goes through it, use a hack saw or small dremel tool to 'slot' it. That way for refitting of it AND removal at a later date you don't have to fully remove the 17mm bolt.
4. Finally, when you refit the starter motor, make sure all four wires ( 3 x 13mm heavy duty and 1 x 8mm low tension side) are
a. securely fixed
b. positioned in such a way that they don't touch...


Point number 4b I didn't do properly and when I connected the battery back, the car kept trying to start - confused the hell out of me at first and I was convinced the car was possessed !

Good luck and hopefully you'll have her back on the road in no time !

 

[os951]

Gents, is that true that the Merc W124 parts are interchangable ? Is it the whole cylinders or just the internals ? I'd be very happy if that's the case, as I'm on a tight budget just now,

Just internals

 

[mike220]

On both master and slave or just slave ?

That's good news as I can get W124 bits far cheaper than I can get 944 bits ! Clutch hydrualic overhaul here we come...........Thanks Olli !