944 Market

[JaseGT4]

I agree, which is why I specifically left the turbo out of my initial post. I'm frustrated at what people think their car is worth (same old story), even when you look at 160,000+ cars in the pictures they are rough and the amount it would cost to bring them up to standard really is not worth the bother hence, the throw away 'scrap value' comment, I apologise if I have offended anyone. I still wouldn't look at them at £3K, however if I wanted a turbo I would look at £10K + but it is not suitable for what I want it for.

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: Ex Skyline Ha,Ha,Ha []! LMFAO!! Oli, you are a very funny man [][]!!!

Why thank you, my good fellow! Oscar Wilde said he could live for two weeks on a compliment - that'll keep me going almost until Bonfire Night! [] Oli.

 

[JaseGT4]

ORIGINAL: Shark I took delivery of that car today. It is a good car the way it sits, but it needs belts and water pump, service, wheels refurbish, driver bolster repair, leather reconolising, it has a leaking steering pump, a dent on a wing and blister on a sill... and I have not even looked underneath it yet. I think there is good £2000 to spend to make it mint- and that's me using trade services and doing a lot of the work myself. On the plus point, it is a cracking looking and driving car, only 1 owner plus dealer demo. It has never seen any paintwork outside the factory which is a rare find nowadays and the inner sill are solid etc.. It will make an enthusiast very happy. It'll be a 12k car when ready I would think..maybe more the way prices are climbing recently! Forget about finding a mint car for around 6k. You may find a diamond in the rough like that above, but be prepared to spend a few thousand getting it to a good standard. My red 951 is a minter. I won it on ebay for sub 6k.. It needs 2.5k spending on it for me to happy with it (most of which I have already done).. so don't get anything for nothing! Also bought the 9.5k panther black 951 in Lanarkshire.. it needs 2grand spending on it too.. Facts are, we may all be enthusiasts in this forum, but the man on the street with a 944/951 does not really know how to look after it or present it properly. Example being both these cars I just bought.. but need a lot of work to realise their full potential. We went to collect the latter car and it was filthy. The car that arrived today- filthy. Both needing work. So if you want a finished article, you need to find an enthusiast maintained car (which will be expensive- see the 51k minter currently for sale for £19,995) or find a dealer like myself and pay the premium there. Either way.. a nice 951 is going to cost you 10K+ for a nice car. Best of luck in your search! You need to be quick as there are vultures refreshing all the sales pages constantly and they are ready to get in a car and drive right there and then with cash to secure a bargain Porsche.

Leaving the turbo out of it, I'd be happy with an S2 which needs some work e.g interior, some paint/refresh etc. I enjoy working on these cars and use a superb indy specialist. Not that interested in the sparkling showroom car but would enjoy bringing it up to standard as a rolling project. By the way I thought your presentation of the red S2 was superb and I would have bought that if you weren't so far away from me.

 

[Shark]

Thank you for the compliment. The red S2 was a cracker. I bought that from a dealer in Glasgow, again, it needed just short of a thousand spending on it (paintwork, wheels tyres). Previous keeper was a mechanic at Glasgow OPC, he had it 10years and it was tip top mechanically. It's on it's way to a good home as we speak, the buyer has not even seen it yet!

 

[JaseGT4]

I thought your pricing on the car was spot on, my only hesitation was the interior (I know what I want and dare I say it, red isn't my first choice but I know to buy on condition). However that was a prime example of spot on pricing. If I had spent £6K on another car I would have had the belts and water pump changed straight away pushing it close to your price. I will keep an eye on your stock or if you could PM me if you have anything suitable I would be grateful.

 

[Monkeythree]

If your budget is £6k and your target is "near perfect" then I would spend £2k on buying the car and £4k putting it right. You need to find one that doesn't need paint though as that will destroy the budget.

 

[Eldavo]

It's simple - you won't get what you're looking for for what you're prepared to pay. Take my car for example, on the one hand it's a genuine Turbo S however it's been modified a lot so that will hurt its value in the eyes of the originality brigade and it's on 164k miles. On the other side of the coin it wants for nothing as it's used for trackdays and fast road it has to be right - I've spent thousands on it and will continue to do so on things that need doing, things I want to do or things I like the look of when I've had a drink and been on eBay (£82 for that carbon fibre armrest). Add into that sills, wings, paintwork, etc and why would I ever sell My car will appeal to a smaller market should I ever decide to sell it but I know that I'd rather buy something that had attention and money lavished on it rather than someone doing the basic servicing in the name of originality. So either buy a Boxster, ignore the mileage on a 944 and buy on condition or save up and buy Martin's gorgeous Turbo.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

which is why I specifically left the turbo out of my initial post

The first line of your original post?

low owner turbo cars

Apologies, coz I read it was a turbo you were after, as you mentioned it in the first line of the first post! [8|] If it's an S2 or S2 cab, then you're more in the ballpark with £6K looking for a good one. I'd still say spend £2K, or £12K on the right one, don't think about a £6K budget and work around that. There are perhaps a couple of hundred decent S2s in the UK? Maybe less, and certainly far less really good ones. If you start to restrict your shopping, be that colour, mileage, leather seats, whatever, you narrow yourself to a very small number of cars indeed. Your dream might be an S2 cab in Baltic, with linen interior, under 100K on the clock, no more than 3 owners, and you prefer Toyos to Michelins. I'm being over-dramatic, of course, but you see how you end up wanting something so impossible to find that you end up with the wrong car. Read Jon's post a few times. He makes a lot of sense. []

 

[MarkK]

Oli very funny[][]

 

[pauljmcnulty]

ORIGINAL: MarkK Oli very funny[][]

Please don't encourage him. We keep trying to ban Oli for his boringly sensible posts....[][]

 

[JaseGT4]

Thanks Paul, I did start off by saying "Just watching this at the moment and forgetting the low mileage, low owner turbo cars which maybe seen as an investment or a car to be driven everyday (lets be fair, still cheaper than a brand new Golf). The price and mileage of standard 100,000 milers is all over the place." I guess I'm frustrated by the lack of decent cars available which are being clouded by high mileage unkempt cars which for some reason owners believe they should be in the £5K range. I understand the passion and commitment to these cars, I'm the same and respect high mileage cherished cars but they are not for me. Turbos sit outide this budget and I wouldn't expect to get a reasonable car for less than 10K. I believe that the market sits somewhere around the £6K mark for a decent S2, as also stated I would expect to spend £2K a year on the car no problem.

 

[PAUL RUDDY]

ORIGINAL: Eldavo It's simple - you won't get what you're looking for for what you're prepared to pay.

I couldn't agree more. We seem to have this debate on a regular basis, we have to come to terms with the fact that the better 944's regardless of model are becoming rarer and more sought after hence the prices are creepng up, add in low mileage, say sub 100k and your into a very limited supply. The £6k area is full of cars needing bodywork or mechanical work, perhaps both, they very quickly become £10k cars or very quickly come back up for sale. Your dealing with a Porsche, not a Vauxhall Corsa or a Golf, cheap cars are usually cheap for a reason, likewise the dear ones can also justify their price tag. My 944S2 has 67k miles, full history, bodily and mechanically perfect with all the major mechanical jobs undertaken in the last 1000 miles, yes it's a pampered garage queen but it's maintenance schedule is as rigorous as a daily driver, maybe better than some, I would class it as one of the best S2's in the country, value, North of £14k all day long. In the 80's I sold my MK2 Escort Mexico for £400, my mate has just put his on the market at £30,000, it's time we appreciated what we have, a good 944 is a £10k car all day long. Paul

 

[andrew_churcher]

Seems to be some fairly tidy looking 944 turbos / s2s on ph at the moment for the 5-8k mark ......minty white s2 at the end just under £10k. Surely a good car or three in that lot and most around your budget. http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/944/porsche-944-s2-1990/2872259 http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/944/porsche-944-s2-coupe----------------1991/2876612 http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/944/porsche-944-s2-1989/2899967 http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/944/porsche-944-turbo-1991/2933946 http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/944/porsche-944-s2-1992-low-miles/2821294

 

[Ewan]

Good cars, subject to a possible subsequent spend of just a grand or two, can be had for circa £6k, as demonstrated by our dealer friend and others. But so can bad ones. But let's not kid ourselves that a good 944 can't be had for anything less than 5 figures. The very best may well be at that point, but a very nice and useable example of a n/a car should be available at approximately the budget.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

I believe that the market sits somewhere around the £6K mark for a decent S2, as also stated I would expect to spend £2K a year on the car no problem.

As I thought, when the market was about £5K for a decent S2 and I was offered one at £4K....[&o] Year one. Brakes £2K. Fuel lines and a few bits another grand. Normal servicing etc. add on £1K. That's the purchase price in one year! Year two. Corrosion issues, plus a service with a lot of fliuds, tyres etc., another £2K. Year three, belts plus all the extras, and dealing with the bodged repair from year two, £2K-plus. Year four: deal with rust and respray, servicing and some other bits, £4K. Not trying to be clever, but I'm supposed to be the 944 Register "expert", and got it totally wrong! I now have a 944 that's in need of a suspension overhaul costing £000s, and has lots of minor issues that could easily be many hours in the garage. You need to look to a car where money's been spent, not I think you need to go in with a completely open budget, and buy a car that's been loved and had money spent on it. My thinking is that an S2 is easily a £10K-plus car if it's a good one: just as nice turbos are moving on from £15K to nearer £20K.

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty

ORIGINAL: MarkK Oli very funny[][]

Please don't encourage him. We keep trying to ban Oli for his boringly sensible posts....[][]

Sorry Boss. If you double-click the ban button somewhere near my name I think you can double-ban me. That might teach me a lesson or two for a while .... [] Oli.

 

[MRGT]

Threads like this always interest me. Maybe I was fortunate finding my sub 110K Turbo recently for 6K, although I have had the belts done along with a few other things for just under a grand, and it does need a little body work (around £500 according to my local indie along with the the plate lift on the calipers sorting at some point - maybe another £ 500, but thats everything done. ). So cost all in may amount to around 9K. But will then need nothing else. So does that make it a 12-15k car ? I dont really care - its perfectly driveable at this moment in time, and it will be perfectly drivable (with no real difference) when the bodywork/calipers are sorted. But some folks seem prepared to pay silly money for a car which doesn't need anything (supposedly) rather than just driving the damn thing

 

[Ex Skyline]

ORIGINAL: Eldavo It's simple - you won't get what you're looking for for what you're prepared to pay. Take my car for example, on the one hand it's a genuine Turbo S however it's been modified a lot so that will hurt its value in the eyes of the originality brigade and it's on 164k miles. On the other side of the coin it wants for nothing as it's used for trackdays and fast road it has to be right - I've spent thousands on it and will continue to do so on things that need doing, things I want to do or things I like the look of when I've had a drink and been on eBay (£82 for that carbon fibre armrest). Add into that sills, wings, paintwork, etc and why would I ever sell My car will appeal to a smaller market should I ever decide to sell it but I know that I'd rather buy something that had attention and money lavished on it rather than someone doing the basic servicing in the name of originality. So either buy a Boxster, ignore the mileage on a 944 and buy on condition or save up and buy Martin's gorgeous Turbo.

What he said, all day long [8D]! Nice one Dave', you got that spot on mate [8D][]!

 

[JaseGT4]

ORIGINAL: Ex Skyline

ORIGINAL: Eldavo It's simple - you won't get what you're looking for for what you're prepared to pay. Take my car for example, on the one hand it's a genuine Turbo S however it's been modified a lot so that will hurt its value in the eyes of the originality brigade and it's on 164k miles. On the other side of the coin it wants for nothing as it's used for trackdays and fast road it has to be right - I've spent thousands on it and will continue to do so on things that need doing, things I want to do or things I like the look of when I've had a drink and been on eBay (£82 for that carbon fibre armrest). Add into that sills, wings, paintwork, etc and why would I ever sell My car will appeal to a smaller market should I ever decide to sell it but I know that I'd rather buy something that had attention and money lavished on it rather than someone doing the basic servicing in the name of originality. So either buy a Boxster, ignore the mileage on a 944 and buy on condition or save up and buy Martin's gorgeous Turbo.

What he said, all day long [8D]! Nice one Dave', you got that spot on mate [8D][]!

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/944/porsche-944-s2-1990/2872259 http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/944/porsche-944-s2-coupe----------------1991/2876612 http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/944/porsche-944-s2-1989/2899967 http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/944/porsche-944-turbo-1991/2933946 http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/944/porsche-944-s2-1992-low-miles/2821294

I have, as originally stated not interested in a Turbo, would buy one if I was!

 

[MartinRS2K]

So my car for sale thread has caused a bit of a stir [] That's good as I think that these cars are undervalued and that they are going to increase in value in the coming years. Regarding the debate on mileage over condition compared to driving them over being a garage queen I have my own thoughts. Car 1 : My 51,000 mile Turbo that is in exceptional condition and covered 3,000 miles in 2013 and 500 miles in 2014. This car has wanted for nothing service wise in the last 18 years and has had all the belts, rollers, brakes, fluids etc changed whether it did no miles or if it did a couple of thousand miles. It has been put on ramps and had the underside checked and cleaned/greased with a rust preventative to ensure it stays in the best possible condition. Car 2 : My 103,000 mile Turbo S that is in very good condition after being owned previously by a mechanic from a Porsche specialist, but is not standard and is currently running at about 320bhp. This car is looked after exactly the same as the car above, and has just had re-trimmed sports seats and newly re-trimmed door cards fitted along with a Club Sport steering wheel and the wheels have been refurbished with new tyres fitted. Both cars are perfect in their own way, the low mileage car is an appreciating 944 Turbo that if continued to be looked after properly and with the miles kept in control will continue to be in my opinion one of the best in the country and worth the asking price or more in the future. The Turbo S has had a harder life and has been modified to give better performance and a firmer ride. I will be doing our trip to Germany next year in this car again and will use it on nice days for local shows, PCGB meets etc. This car is a rarer car being a Silver Rose (and can be taken back to standard if I want) but is not worth the same sort of money as my low mileage car. I bought this car for a good price when the market was quiet and people didn't think that it was worth the price being sold at, but I felt that it was an excellent car for my needs (not standard but in good mechanical and body condition) and gave me something extra over the low mileage car. Now, I've finished rambling about the 2 I own I will give my thoughts [8|] Yes, you can buy a good S2 or Turbo for under £6k if you are very lucky, and you may get one that has a great service history with all the jobs done and no hidden bodywork issues to worry about. But just as likely you can get one that will end up costing you £000's in maintenance work on mechanicals and bodywork. This is exactly the same as spending £12,000+ on one in that it may not have been looked after properly and it may have spent the last 20 years sat on a drive doing very little with the elements taking their toll on the bodywork and rubbers. Either way you need to properly check the cars before you make the purchase which is what I did with both the cars I bought. If you are on a tight budget then the above applies to you even more or you may end up with a car that you cannot afford to maintain properly and over the coming months it will deteriorate if jobs are not done and the downward spiral starts as we have seen with some of the cars for sale. My cars are all garaged and don't get driven in the Winter but not everyone can or wants to do this, but don't think that I sit and look at my cars without driving them as they are driven from April to September travelling all over the Uk and Europe to shows and trips away. Final one..... Who is going to the NEC Classic Car Show on the Friday so we can meet up and continue this debate over a pint or 2 [8D]