80s Doer Upper Questions!

[chrisjcoe]

I've been looking for a car to cut my teeth working on for a while now, and have settled for an old 944. I want a car which is mechanically and structurally sound (nothing major wrong with the engine, no MOT failing rust to the sills, etc), and is ideally under 150k mileage.

I am happy to tackle the easy mechanical tasks at first (servicing, exhaust, minor fixes, interior), and I'm happy to tackle minor rust spots. In time, once I've built up my stock of tools, I plan to tackle harder jobs like brakes, suspension, gaskets, etc. Any harder rust, such as sills and arches, I have a friend for! But, in the meantime, I need a car that runs, and will run for a while until I build up the confidence and finances to rip it apart.

Watching ebay for the past few weeks shows that there are a lot of quality early 80's 944s out there, which go for upwards of £2k. Taking the above into consideration, I hope I can pick up one that could do with some TLC for about £1k. Is this likely? I've seem some in the £1-1.5k price range advertised which burn oil (which scares me off), MOT failing rust (likely expensive), non-runners, SORN, etc. There are others which seem to be in good running condition in this range, I'm watching several on ebay at the moment which aren't selling so might be open to offers.

Would I be likely to find a car like this for £1k? Would you expect the majority of them to be hiding nasty secrets? Am I being too optimistic?

 

[edh]

ORIGINAL: chrisjcoe

Would I be likely to find a car like this for £1k? Would you expect the majority of them to be hiding nasty secrets? Am I being too optimistic?

No, Yes and Yes []

I reckon an experienced 944 buyer could bag a bargain car for a grand, but even then you'd have to be lucky.

btw - don't worry about mileage too much - worry more about rust, clutch, belts/waterpump etc..

The base model 2.5 should run pretty much for ever IMO - The first one I bought had been round the clock twice I think, and was quite happy being thrashed on track days. Suspension was bit soggy mind..

 

[Lowtimer]

But it would have to be from someone who was a forced seller and in a hurry for the money. A truly rot free 944 with all good mechanicals is worth more than £1,000. If you manage to get one at the expense of a seller who is forced to turn a good car into instant cash you might get away with it, but no-one with a really good 944 will want to let it go for that kind of money.

 

[chrisjcoe]

Thanks for the information Ed, so I need to rent myself an experienced 944 owner! Perhaps I'll trawl the forum lonely ads section.

I agree Lowtimer, but finding a genuine forced seller is a bit tricky. This one one makes me a bit suspicious for instance. I'm sure it's genuine, and the car looks tidy, perhaps it will go for a decent price.

Also, locality is quite important. Most on ebay tend to be about 4-5 hours drive away. The only ones close to me and not out of my top price range (yet) are 1989 2.7l and 1987 2.5l, but the latter appears to have been messed about with a bit.

I'm in a position to buy in the next couple of weeks, don't mind getting one which needs a bit of work, provided it's drivable and not beyond the limits of a beginner who wants to learn. This one was one I considered as it needs a bit of fettling, This one might be in my price range, although I'm ignoring the spots of oil on the drive, might not be connected to the car parked there..... Finally, this one looked promising but the 'bad points' scare me off a bit, not sure I'm ready to take potential gearbox problems yet.

 

[zcacogp]

Out of curiosity, why a 944? Such a vehicle is generally out of your price range and you haven't factored in the cost of parts either (Porsche parts are very expensive.) Project costs only go in one direction and you are aspiring to something you can't afford anyway.

Why not something more readily available and cheaper? Mk2 Golf GTi, perhaps. Or something like an E30 BMW, if you want to stay german.


Oli.

 

[Lowtimer]

This is very true. If you can't afford a few thousand quid up front to buy a decent example, you certainly can't afford a cheap fixer-upper, as they cost vastly more.

 

[chrisjcoe]

This is very true. If you can't afford a few thousand quid up front to buy a decent example, you certainly can't afford a cheap fixer-upper, as they cost vastly more.

I was going to spend a lot more than that on something older sporting a big american V8, with the plan to teach myself how to maintain it. I've been looking for about a year now for the right one, and to try to justify spending that much. However, I've decided to reign myself in a bit to start with, get something cheaper which is still exciting that I can learn on. I know parts won't be as cheap as an old Escort or something equally as dull, but then I can't see myself smiling every time I unlock the door of anything other than a 944. Also, if I'm going to spend the time and money on a car, I'd rather it was one I was excited about.


£1k isn't the extent of my budget, but I thought that would leave me plenty for parts and tools. I could up the purchase price, but in a way I don't want a perfect car that I don't have to touch, I do want to get my hands dirty. However, I think you're both right that I'll probably end up with a crock of shite for £1k.

So, if I want a car that's a good runner but showing signs of wear and tear that an amateur like myself could tackle, would you think £2k would cover it? From past experience, spending more on a car doesn't always guarantee a better one, I've learned that the hard way! I would hope it narrows down the chance of getting a dud though.

 

[Lowtimer]

Yes, it is perfectly possible to pay too much for a car with problems, but it is even more likely that a cheap but superficially shiny car will cost a fortune to rectify and make it properly refreshed.

I entirely understand the benefits of knowing yourself what has been done to the car in terms of refreshing it, but it depends what jobs you are able to do yourself, meaning what workshop facilities you have available and how skilled you are. Would you be happy changing your own head gasket, doing all the belts and rollers, water pump and front engine seals and decoking the head? If so, then you can look for a car with no corrosion problems but which is due a lot of periodic replacement work. If not, buying a car that's had all that done recently is massively cheaper than getting someone else to do it.

Same goes for clutches, engine mounts, and aspects of the suspension. It is one thing to swap a few anti-roll-bar bushes, and another thing altogether to replace every bush in the whole suspension and get a proper geometry job done.

Even costing your labour at nil I would consider it poor value for money to buy a 944 Lux that had a fair value of less than about £3,000. Really you want one on which almost everything than typically needs doing has been done within the last few years, expect for those jobs you actually want to do yourself for the satisfaction of doing the work. If you can buy such a car, that has a fair value of £3k, for £2k, then good luck to you, of course.

 

[chrisjcoe]

it depends what jobs you are able to do yourself, meaning what workshop facilities you have available and how skilled you are

At the moment, not very skilled and not many facilities.

Would you be happy changing your own head gasket, doing all the belts and rollers, water pump and front engine seals and decoking the head?

Head gasket, belts, rollers, pump, filters, clutch, etc - yes, this is the sort of work I want to teach myself, and no better way than by trying it out. So, I'd really be looking for a car with no major structural (MOT failing) rot, and no major engine problems that would require professional rebuild. I know, hard to find I suspect unless I up my budget 2 or 3 fold.

 

[Fat Albert]

Whilst there are some known issues with the 944s that have been mentioned above, they are extremely robust and are one of the few '80s cars that will still stand up to being used as a daily runner.

My advice is to buy a very high mileage, but well-maintained example. The mileage will drag the value down but you may find that one that has been regularly used and maintained is actually a better bet than a nice clean garage queen.

Recent service history is much more important than checking its PDI and first oil change stamps from 20 years ago, and because these are now so cheap to buy, people are buying them and trying to run them on a shoe-string and not keeping up the maintenance.

Feel free to run any examples by the forum, it maybe a known car (for good or bad!) or there maybe a forumite nearby that can go and see it with you

Good luck and you are right that they do induce a great big grin when you spot yours standing out from the euroboxes in the station car park on the way home after a hard day

 

[chrisjcoe]

My advice is to buy a very high mileage, but well-maintained example.

Yeah, I was looking for recent service history. Porsche stamps for the first 80k miles don't mean much to me when the car has done 180k! I'm not really after a daily runny, I have another car for that, but would drive it once or twice a week.

Feel free to run any examples by the forum, it maybe a known car (for good or bad!) or there maybe a forumite nearby that can go and see it with you

That's good to know. Despite enthusiasm, I really would struggle to notice anything bad that someone else with a bit of experience would spot from 10 feet away. I think I will create some posts with some ebay links on for you guys to shoot down! But Lowtimer's advice is persuading me to up my purchase budget a bit, once I've sweet talked the girlfriend! It was £1k, perhaps now it will be £2k.

 

[944Turbo]

The available free online workshop manuals are very good and are a great aid to someone wishing to learn / teach themselves. The fact that most parts are available also makes the 944 a good choice. They are also generally well engineered and come apart - go back together in a straightforward manner. Generally the parts respond well to time spent cleaning / polishing. On the downsides compared to say a classic mini parts can be expensive, compared to a modern car they can be cheap though!
Buying one will be a lottery, there are good ones cheap and bad ones expensive, some forum guidance might be a good starting point, might also be worth talking to any local specialist if they know any good cars going,
Good luck,
Tony

 

[Mike_Pollock]

I can't add much to the above comments all spot on.

Whereabouts are you? I'm sure there are local members who would view a car or cars with you, its actually quite common!

I certainly would (any excuse to see a 944 or 2!) I'm in Leicester, and I know of several others who would.

They are great cars and always puts a smile on my face.[]

 

[chrisjcoe]

The available free online workshop manuals are very good

I didn't realise that, a quick search does show a lot of detailed information though, thanks!

Buying one will be a lottery, there are good ones cheap and bad ones expensive

That's my experience about buying cars, I've learned that the hard way.

Whereabouts are you? I'm sure there are local members who would view a car or cars with you, its actually quite common!

I'm from Colchester, but would be willing to travel 2-3 hours for a car. I'd be grateful for any help members could give. I would love to buy one tomorrow, but will be out of the country for most of next week so at least it gives me a bit of time to look around.