3 litre 944 Turbo on track
- Thread starter Diver944
- Start date
Neil Haughey
New member
It is indeed mate, very interesting. I downloaded one of his papers from the SAE website, he has written loads of stuff over the years but until I stumbled on his website I had no idea. One of the standout things he mentions on the site and elsewhere is about trail braking. What most ppl don't understand is that most cars have much more capacity to gain time from effective trail braking then getting maximum corner exit speed. The reason is simple when you think about it: you can max out the traction circle with the brakes very easily (assuming one has the required level of talent to balance a car on the brakes of course) but even the most powerful cars can not pull a lot of G on corner exit acceleration. They took a pro race driver out on a race track to test some of the results from what his software does, basically applying the theory of driving the traction circle. The results where startling but you have to download the SAE paper unfortunately to read all about that bit.ORIGINAL: edh
Interesting website Neil - I can add that to my list of excuses []
Neil Haughey
New member
Well one of the comments that stands out in the circuit guides with respect to Druids is "If you're not on a constant radius from entry to exit you're doing something wrong", easier said then done though.
944 man
Active member
There are any number of places that can bite you at OP. Druids has a reputation that everyone should be aware of before driving it though. Knickerbrook was natsy too: It did used to be worse, but its been altered to some degree after a number of high profile and very serious accidents there.
Just looking briefly at that website, it could well be right but it's dealing in 2 dimensional absolutes only. What that fails to take into consideration (mainly because there are too many possible variations) is differences in track surfaces, elevation changes, oil buildup / line, ripples and whatever else. Also defending your position in an actual race will often mean a less than ideal line also.
Anyway Dave, show some more video!!!
Anyway Dave, show some more video!!!
Big Dave
New member
Here you go chaps.
http://www.vimeo.com/3515848
The camera was positioned above the drivers head on top of the windscreen.
As you will no dought be able to hear, Druids is taken in 3rd gear...This was the "safe" way to do it. Im now taking it in 4th, MUCH faster....[][][][]
http://www.vimeo.com/3515848
The camera was positioned above the drivers head on top of the windscreen.
As you will no dought be able to hear, Druids is taken in 3rd gear...This was the "safe" way to do it. Im now taking it in 4th, MUCH faster....[
][][][]
edh
New member
Looks good Dave - you just need a turbo on that car to catch the GT3's []
I'd agree that's the conventional and quickest line - tell us a bit more about how it feels in 4th - are your corner entry speeds much higher & is the car moving around more?
This looked like an exciting way to take the corner [:-]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Tvq5D6iL4k
]I'd agree that's the conventional and quickest line - tell us a bit more about how it feels in 4th - are your corner entry speeds much higher & is the car moving around more?
This looked like an exciting way to take the corner [:-]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Tvq5D6iL4k
Diver944
Active member
Very nice consistent lappery Dave [] Despite traffic you were lapping within 5 seconds on all the laps, 2:06 at best and 2:11 at worst. On a busy RS trackday I would say thats pretty damned good .
I like that camera angle too. Is it a fullsize camcorder on a sucker mount or a small lipstick camera with the recorder in the car?
] Despite traffic you were lapping within 5 seconds on all the laps, 2:06 at best and 2:11 at worst. On a busy RS trackday I would say thats pretty damned good .I like that camera angle too. Is it a fullsize camcorder on a sucker mount or a small lipstick camera with the recorder in the car?
Big Dave
New member
Ed
Corner entry speed is a bit higher.
BUT + its a big BUT, you have to be VERY smooth on turn in + very comitted all the way through the corner, The car is very stable. You just DONT even try to adjust mid corner or youl be looking at a big bill. When you get over the initial "scare" its realy good.
The advantage is your not changing gear mid corner, therefore keeping the car stable...+ exit speed is higher...
I suspect itl be even better in a lighter weight, race car, as mine is a semi skimmed version...But as you say. 2-05 in a "semi-skimmed " road car is pretty good, even if i do say so myself.[][][]
Ide love to try doing a 1-56 in a fully specced race car...[][][][]
Paul.
The camera is a bullet cam mounted on 3 small suckers, with the recorder in the car bolted to the roll cage.
If youve seen the second vid thats the same but facing backwards with Mr Follet following,,, "trying to keep up"....[][][][][]
Corner entry speed is a bit higher.
BUT + its a big BUT, you have to be VERY smooth on turn in + very comitted all the way through the corner, The car is very stable. You just DONT even try to adjust mid corner or youl be looking at a big bill. When you get over the initial "scare" its realy good.
The advantage is your not changing gear mid corner, therefore keeping the car stable...+ exit speed is higher...
I suspect itl be even better in a lighter weight, race car, as mine is a semi skimmed version...But as you say. 2-05 in a "semi-skimmed " road car is pretty good, even if i do say so myself.[
][][]Ide love to try doing a 1-56 in a fully specced race car...[
][][][]Paul.
The camera is a bullet cam mounted on 3 small suckers, with the recorder in the car bolted to the roll cage.
If youve seen the second vid thats the same but facing backwards with Mr Follet following,,, "trying to keep up"....[
][][][][]
edh
New member
Neil Haughey
New member
Don't remind me guys, I spent Christmas week trying to pre-learn the tracks using a combination of the circuit guides and youtube. The only problem is that nearly all the videos on youtube from Oulton are of ppl stacking it big time. No other UK track seems to have so many carnage videos.
Neil Haughey
New member
Your comments here and in the previous post are all fair but the thing that he does is an analysis model not a car dynamics simulation. In effect what you do is take the maximum G performance of the car, as defined by data logging for example, if you know what you're real world vehicle performance is at each attitude of the vehicle that gives you enough to do the calculations and come up with some pointers as to how to drive the car more optimally. In the SAE paper the real world results didn't exactly mirror prediction, they never could but they did demonstrate that the principals are sound. Now the really interesting question is what happens if one can change the set up of a vehicle to change the GG diagram
http://www.temporal.com.au/ggdiag.htm
...and then re-run a circuit analysis to see if this results in a theoretical improvement. Of course the biggest flaw in all of this is the driver, the analysis he shows on the website and in papers is talking about often small adjustments in line, braking points, and acceleration points that require exact application by the driver.
Neil Haughey
New member
ORIGINAL: edh
That's a very quick lap!! - and almost as fast as a 944 turbo race car [
Ben has a very aggresive driving style. If you watch him carefully he often takes 2 bites at a corner, in effect killing the understeer by throwing the car in, then he winds the steering lock off a touch as the tyre sidewalls react and the tyres bite into the corner, then he gets onto the throttle for a short time on the approach into the apex. Then he comes back off the throttle a little to keep the car tucked in then power on through the apex. That is a quite a lot of driving to get sorted in what is often only fractions of a second as I witnessed him doing through Tower at Combe last year.
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