3.6 turbo 2 for sale on AT

[911addict]

The grey 3.6 in autotrader has been advertised for a while- at least 2 months? Strange, it seems fair value for a 3.6. the 3.3 at Devyea seems pricey, but if its perfect and up to date (ie. full & recent service, modern Cat 1 security, and stereo etc.) maybe OK- still seems alot to me.

I just bought a black 3.3 from Gmund for £28K but have spent around 4K on repairs and updates. I don't expect to see my money back, but I'm now happy with the spec. I was not entirely happy with Gmund- but that's another story and ongoing.

 

[Gordon Attar]

Remember there is big difference between the 993TT and 964 3.6 T2, the latter being a more Raw experience. Go onto Rennlist there is a cracking comparison in the 993TT register, that helped my decision. LONG READ: 993TT v 964T: An Owners' Comparison http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=223796

Ref 993TT mileage might not be so bad and worth a call as Arena Red tend to be the cheapest colour, also there is a 49k one in Blue on AT for £3k more, which is obviously negotiable, some traders would ask late £40's for it!.

The 3.3 is a bit Rich you should be able to stay under £30k for a 3.3, if you wait..

Its odd that the 3.6T is still about, as thats a good price and I couldnt see much in the way of depreciation, with your proposed mileage, give it a good inspection.

Re 4th choice overpriced and not worth considering with option 3

Good luck, take your time and have it inspected.

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: 911addict

I just bought a black 3.3 from Gmund for £28K but have spent around 4K on repairs and updates. I don't expect to see my money back, but I'm now happy with the spec. I was not entirely happy with Gmund- but that's another story and ongoing.

Thats pretty close to the Devyea price (28 + 4) ... so like you say, if its up to spec etc ... is not a bad price for a car with 30000miles on it. How many miles has yours got on for £28k? Im off to Gmund on 7th with the North east section to look at one ... what probs you had with them ... anything I should take note of? (email me if you dont want to post)

Cheers D

 

[911addict]

Dale,
Mileage on mine 64K. But was prepared to pay for colour (wanted black only). Around £2000 was on repairs/ servicing etc. The remainder on modernisation which you are unlikely to get on a standard early 90's car, ie. latest stereo with SatNav, iPod and bluetooth handsfree, Xenon lights upgrade and full cat 1 security (the original was Cat2- which would cost me £400 per annum more in insurance).

Reference Gmund, I will be happy to discuss the problems. The dispute is still in progress but will be concluded one way or the other by the time of your visit so I will be able to give you details whether dissatisfied or rectified. In short, he did not do all the agreed pre-delivery work we had agreed. It remains to be seen whether his integrity is rescued or not...

 

[Gordon Attar]

911 addict
£28k is a premium price and you shouldnt have had to do any work, let alone service the car, presume you got carried away and did'nt have an independant inspection as you felt you could trust Gmund(they do have a good rep) and they normally have premium cars and should have for the prices they charge.
Dont let them get away with it. Trade price on that car would have been c£21k, £22k max if p/ex on one of there more expensive cars.
Gmund hang about on Pistonheads and get sales from there, if they dont respond positively soon, place a non specific(dont mention them by name) posting asking for advice but sufficient detail that they recognise you, hopefully that will help.

 

[911addict]

Gordon, funnily enough I did have an inspection. There was a list made of repairs. Most were done, some were not, and there were also things that were not identified that I noticed after delivery. Frankly, due to their lack of thoroughness, I had the car serviced by my local guys.

I paid 'top dollar' (and even paid for new heat exchangers to be fitted as the old ones were 'split') on the understanding that the car would be A1. This was not the case.

In addition to some minor mecahnical/electrical issues not done, Gmund advertise that they throughly prepare the car including paint prep, detailing & valet (they are Swissol dealers). This was not the case at all. Apart from general dirty interior, there was a particular spot of corrosion which was identified in the report, and I asked for this to be recified as part of the pre-delivery preparation.

When the car arrived it was raining so could not inpect the body at all. When I phoned and emailed them about it, their follow up was non-existent. I have now had the work done locally and am in process of asking for a reimbursement.

I have no problem about posting the truth about this on any forum. (at least we are mainly independent here, probably not so transparent on some sponsored sites). If someone does not provide a good service then other potential clients need to know. By the same token, if they do make amends (as in the real world things can go wrong) then good customer service deserves praise.

Despite the fact that my ownership experience has been tarnished in these early weeks, I absolutely love this car, and would thoroughly recommend a Turbo (3.3 or otherwise).

 

[Gordon Attar]

Mark
Completely agree with your sentiments.

As you have had your car inspected they really haven't a leg to stand on and I certainly wouldnt have paid for the heat exchangers, so you were obviously one of there more reasonable customers. Sounds like they have tried to take the 'Michael' and you've had one of those services you expect from an 'OPC' or reseller who sub contracts his maintenence and calls an oil change a full service!

I find the comments interesting because Gmund have a reputation for being a top notch retailer and when adding your comments to some others, I've heard of late, they are really no difference from most of the ' give it a clean and then repair anything the buyer spots' type merchants. For instance the ex Faldo £60k Turbo S you no doubt had a look at, which should be immaculate with 12k on the clock, is seemingly a bit tatty around the edges and needs the wheels refurbished! not what you expect when the y are charging 5 to 10% premiums over everyone else(except Spec. cars Malton)

As a contrast I bought a 97 LHD 993TT from Northways for the same price as you(trade price) but bought it as seen, not prepped or serviced, had it inspected(by Paul not Ray though) advised new discs and pads all round and the usual bubbles below front windscreen, AC not working, drivers check strap and slight weep from cam cover and the service record could have been better. Had a full monty service all oils all belts etc etc, they gassed the AC foc it know works!, did nt do the brakes as the car braked twice as fast as my 964, havent spent a penny on her yet(except a full zymol clean for £150) and 5km later I've found nothing to add to the list except the cruise control is intermittant, the weeping cams is £1200(10 hours) at OPC, Ray can do in 2 hours for £90 and the full set of brakes £800 which I will do soon. The reason I mention it is that I know what the faults are and they advised they could wait and as he is firstly a servicing oriented business that sells some cars(usually at 'private sale' prices) and lives by his reputation and stands by his word, the lot that seem to be Sales people first seem to like to retain the '2nd car salesman' reputation!.

Good luck with getting the refund

 

[nathan 1981 930 G50]

ORIGINAL: Dale B

Well after a bit of a break (for one reason or another), I'm back looking at Turbo 2's. Ive seen 4 that I have an interest in (all of which were for sale the last time I was looking) and was wondering if anyone would give me some guidance as to the most desirable to go for.
1st is a P reg Turbo 4 on AT at £34999 no mileage given but suspect will be high for that price.
2nd a 1992 3.3 964 at Paul Devyea £33995 .. 30000miles in lovely Tahoe Blue
3rd a 1994 3.6 964 on AT with Formula Cars £33950 ... 57000miles (I was looking at this one late the end of last year)
4th a 1993 3.3 964 at Gmund £29995 ... 59972miles (6 OWNERS :-O ) in lovely Horizon Blue.
From a residual value point of view given that I do approx 6000miles a year would it be better to go for the 3.6 with higher mileage but rarer or the low miles 3.3 at Paul Devyea's. Also Given the miles and owners on the Gmund car would it be best to pay the extra £4000(ish) and get either of the others.

Cheers Dale

Personally I would go for the 993TT if it is in good condition. The 993 rear suspension is far superior to the early cars. You can always spend money later on any niggles it may have. Also the twin turbo's are a great way of reducing the turbo lag.
If it has been neglected then go for the 3.6, you can always fit better heat exchangers and turbocharger if the power is not enough.

 

[Guest]

Well after much emailing and telephoning ... Im off down to Paul Devyeas at the weekend to have a look at the Tahoe Blue 3.3 T. Paul seems a nice freindly bloke .. anyone hade dealings with him at all?

 

[burrow01]

Hi,

I bought my 993 Cab from Paul - Friendly bloke, will try to close the deal on the day though. He was reluctant to hold the car until I could get a PPI done - how long has the turbo been for sale - I think I remember one being there when I bought my car, but was not focussing on it at the time []

My car was nicely prepared when I picked it up, and he gave me a good handover, and no problems since

Pete

 

[turboww]

That turbo has been there for a few months now.

I bought an '87 Carrera from him a few years back when he was based in Halstead - M25 J4 (Near Pratt's Bottom no less!) before he moved to Sevenoaks.

Good honest guy, but sometimes the cars let him down. When I was looking for the 964 Turbo he had a tatty midnight blue one with a full on tart's stereo and 4 badly scuffed wheels.

I bought a mint one from Paragon in silver. And paid quite a bit more for it

 

[Guest]

Yeah its been the since the end of last year. Its for sale on behalf of a customer, but has offered a superb price for my p/x. Organising a PPI with Porsche at Tunbridge but cant see there being a problem (he says with finger crossed). Its a 250 mile journey down for me but making a trip of it by taking the wifey down with me and doing some shopping at Bluewater (it was the only way I could persuade her to let me spend the money .... lol)

 

[ricky944]

Dale,

I bought my T2 from Paul Devyeas back in 2004 no problems with mine..........clutch was a bit heavy that was the only problem i could find wrong with it but i had that changed only last year.

Came with the standard 6 month in house warranty but i never used it as i did not have any problems.

Heres a piccie

 

[Guest]

Just had the report back from Porsche Tunbridge. A few things, but ones that will be sorted by the service & MOT. Needs Discs / Pads all round, Air Conn doesnt work (may need a recharge), Very slight oil weap on right side cam cover, one of the window washers doesnt work??? (bloked maybe), Bonnet stays are weak and cigarette lighter doesnt work (maybe fuse or broken wire. Paul said that all these items would be fixed apart from the Air Conn. he said that he would recharge the system etc, but if it doesnt work after that then he didnt want to get into replacing compressors or condensors. Any idea how much it will be to get a compressor fitted? (by specialist not Porsche)
Nice car Ricky

 

[ricky944]

Dale,

Give JZ Machtech a call just for a rough estimate.....01923 269788 http://www.jzmachtech.com/shells/

Very freindly and professional independant garage.

cheers
Richard

 

[911addict]

From painful experience with my T2, don't expect the recharge to sort the aircon. It didn't with mine, and I'm looking at component replacements now- I don't expect to see much change out of high hundreds/ £1000, so expect the worst.

Devyea's car at £33K is way over the top- that's why it hasn't shifted. I think £30K should be the max for a standard car, even with low miles, and for that price it should be mint with nothing to do. And as I mentioned before, it is likely you may find the security and stereo (and phone kit if it has one) out of date, so look to budget accordingly.

 

[ricky944]

From painful experience with my T2, don't expect the recharge to sort the aircon. It didn't with mine, and I'm looking at component replacements now- I don't expect to see much change out of high hundreds/ £1000, so expect the worst.

Devyea's car at £33K is way over the top- that's why it hasn't shifted. I think £30K should be the max for a standard car, even with low miles, and for that price it should be mint with nothing to do. And as I mentioned before, it is likely you may find the security and stereo (and phone kit if it has one) out of date, so look to budget accordingly.

911addict your right on the air con.......mine never worked properly JZ said it was the compressor that needed looking at........not important for me as mine has a sun roof so i can live without it (looking at £500 + though)

I spent £30k on mine BUT that was 2 years ago with 64k on the clock i looked at about 10 cars from £23k to £35k and it took me about 6 months to find the right one,just take your time and dont let your heart rule your head.

 

[Dave Wilkinson]

Dale,

I have to say that the aircon on the 964 is a known weak link - you've probably seen every car on Henry Firman's 911 Virgin site say "expect it not to work"!! The problem, as Paul Devyea knows, can be a multitude of problems. It's certain that the system will not work because of a lack of gas pressure - there's a pressure sensor which prevents the compressor clutch engaging if there's not enough pressure. The real problem though is WHY is there not enough pressure. It can be that the system has just leaked out over time - 964s rarely last a couple of years without losing the gas pressure - but, of more concern is the potential for corrosion and physical damage allowing the refrigerant to escape.

I would let Paul do the regas and re-evaluate the situation then. If the recharge lasts a few days it's promising but if there IS a significant leak it's likely to not last the day out. Leaks can develop anywhere in the system but the common ones are the compressor seals, the condenser (in the left front wheel well) and the evaporator (in the heater unit). The evaporator is the most expensive since the labour involved in removing it costs as much as the new evaporator (>£500). The condenser is around £200 but relatively simple to change. The compressor can be expensive but is availabe through Toyota somewhat cheaper than Porsche.

You might ask how come I've got to know all this - I've got the "T" shirt!!!

Regards

Dave

 

[Guest]

Cheers Dave (& others) ... comprehensive answer there . I've been down to Pauls over the weekend and bought the car (cant wait for next Sat). He did say that he would regass and do his best at getting it sorted but cant promise anything and definately wont get into rebuilding the system. He also mentioned the fact that they were'nt very good systems and most people just didnt use them because they were so poor and therefore failed through non-use.

 

[Gordon Attar]

Dale
You should not accept the car unless he fixes the aircon first as it could quite easily cost a grand. You are paying top dollar and should accept nothing else but a perfect car in return, he will be making a good at least £6k on this car.
Though you have paid (? in full) I'm sure he will soon fix if you say you have changed your mind because of the aircon, why , because its a premium price car and he has had it a while and wont risk losing for a £500 evaporator(as its unlikey that it and the compressor have gone together)

Paul Devyeas comments are correct but are no excuse to not rectifying and the comment 'do his best getting it sorted' would worry me with regards to any other work as well, sounds like he knows a regas(£50-£80) will not work.
If you take the car away make sure you check your remedial list carefully(if he hovers about when your doing it be worried)that you right on his copy of the invoice/receipt that you collected based on 'assuming all identified remedial work being carried out'(whether that includes the A/C is up to you).

Good luck and enjoy.