1986 turbo front discs

[scam75]

I have 993TT calipers on mine. Had to machine the collars down so they fitted. I have very little clearance on the CS wheels around the caliper so need to balance them slightly more inboard so they dont foul. Dare say 17's would sort that issue. I only paid £200 for the calipers and gave away my in need of refurb original M030 ones at the same time. When I say gave away, they lay in my mates garage for ages and when I asked for them back they had gone. I cant grumble as said friend did loads of work for me at really cheap prices and also sourced the 993 calipers for me for £200. So I just accepted that as a trade in!

Stuart

 

[944Turbo]

I still think there is some confusion here
My 1990 250BHP coupe came with the medium blacks as did all other 250BHp coupes, It didn't come with yellow konis - which came with the M030 option - Big blacks bolted straight on to my car - there is also a non drilled disk for that fits with big blacks / reds might have been a 928 GTS part but back when I bought mine the drilled discs were cheaper. Big blacks/reds dont fit under 16" wheels though*.
you do need an adaptor to fit the medium blacks to a 220BHP turbo.
Tony

edited to add

*without machining and if you upgrade the discs

 

[scam75]

M030 calipers are radial mount but will accept the same discs and pads as the standard 250 axial calipers despite the OEM listing being for more expensive discs and pads. Does that not sum it up?

Stuart

 

[Waylander]

funny thing about all this, on the road the standard 97mm calipers, rebuilt calipers and decent disks and pads are more then adequate stopping power, the only time you would need more is on the track,

I have Brembo Disks and Brembo Pads on my standard coupe and it stops just as well as my much more modern and more servo assisted Audi A4,

I am one of these strange folks that does not go hunting for more go, more stopping, bigger wheels better this bigger that, i just like the car the way it is, old analogue, and fun to drive and I mean really drive, none of this nanny assistance driving aids,

a personal opinion only, and I know everyone has one..... if its not fast enough or dont stop quick enough or have big enough wheels basically its the wrong car, go buy summit else, it will cost less in the long run

 

[944Turbo]

funny thing about all this, on the road the standard 97mm calipers, rebuilt calipers and decent disks and pads are more then adequate stopping power, the only time you would need more is on the track,

I have Brembo Disks and Brembo Pads on my standard coupe and it stops just as well as my much more modern and more servo assisted Audi A4,

I am one of these strange folks that does not go hunting for more go, more stopping, bigger wheels better this bigger that, i just like the car the way it is, old analogue, and fun to drive and I mean really drive, none of this nanny assistance driving aids,

a personal opinion only, and I know everyone has one..... if its not fast enough or dont stop quick enough or have big enough wheels basically its the wrong car, go buy summit else, it will cost less in the long run

The only time you need more brakes is when the ones you have run out
In truth I upgraded because my original calipers needed rebuilding and the shiny new big blacks were at a superb price. The car was also getting used on track with sticky rubber - I am fairly gentle on the brakes though compared to some.
Tony

 

[944Turbo]

M030 calipers are radial mount but will accept the same discs and pads as the standard 250 axial calipers despite the OEM listing being for more expensive discs and pads. Does that not sum it up?

Stuart

Which M030 calipers?
I think all 250BHP cars had 'M030' calipers and they mounted the same way - irrespective of whether the car had M030 suspension or not.
The calipers changed at some point on the 250 cars as the later ones do not have raised lettering (just a decal). I don't think the dimensions of pads or pistons changed though.(my 91 cab has decals front and rear - pretty sure my 90 coupe had decals rear and raised lettering on the fronts)

I don't know for sure what the S2 and 968 got with M030, I had a feeling the 968 was the same as the 250BHP turbo but it was a rare option even on the CS.

Tony

 

[blade7]

Just had a quick look through the wheel at my 91 turbo front calipers. Porsche logo is raised, mounting bolts are horizontal rather than vertical on the caliper.

 

[scam75]

My car has M030. It had medium blacks, radially mounted. Those were replaced with radial mounted modified 993TT items. I, like you, assumed they were all the same. But clearly one set up is axial, standard 250bhp cars, and one set up is radial, M030 cars (certainly in my case anyway). Both can use same discs and pads. I guess we need to find another M030 car owner to see if he is radial or axial? My guess is when you spec M030 you get radial mount calipers as part of the package. That would certainly make sense.

Stuart

 

[Waylander]

there are two sorts of caliper fitted

dust cap type, and scraper seal type,

so its all down to piston sizes,
standard 36/40
big brakes 36/44
From Pet, which is not the easest thing to follow

968/944S2
all the same without M030
951 351 421 03, 36/40

all pre 89 turbos
951 351 093 00, 36/44 Scraper Seals
Post 89
Turbos, S2 M030
928 351 421 03 36/44

so I would say that all turbos came standard with Big brakes 36/44 Pistons, so upgrading those cars to M030 is a waste of time, as M030 are listed with the same size pistons.

928's also list 36/44 pistons, and some with 36/42
928 351 423 03

so all I can say is if you have M030 or Big Blacks they are the same size pistons, the only variable is the pad size.

 

[blade7]

I think Porsche threw nearly everything at the original 944 Turbo S, and they under estimated demand. They were hardly going to turn away buyers after the original run sold through. So like Renault with the original Clio Williams they cashed in. Maybe the anoraks get wood over MO30 suspension/brakes or thicker walled blocks and forged conrods, but unless someone is racing or seriously upping the power output it's all pretty much irrelevant.

 

[James0]

I must admit I've never on the road felt the standard brakes to be lacking.
I did a couple of 'ring trips and a track day using the standard brakes some years back without issue.
I'm no racing driver though, I'm better off road on two wheels that I can actually afford to race rather than pretend to race.

I've just looked at the brakes on a 2019 Transit connect and they look bigger than the 944.

 

[blade7]

I'm better off road on two wheels that I can actually afford to race rather than pretend to race.

I've just looked at the brakes on a 2019 Transit connect and they look bigger than the 944.

I've had a lot of litre sports bikes, but on the last one the brakes were night and day better than anything I'd had before. I never locked the front up, but with the ABS off there were some unexpected stoppies [].

 

[944Turbo]

there are two sorts of caliper fitted

dust cap type, and scraper seal type,

so its all down to piston sizes,
standard 36/40
big brakes 36/44
From Pet, which is not the easest thing to follow

968/944S2
all the same without M030
951 351 421 03, 36/40

all pre 89 turbos
951 351 093 00, 36/44 Scraper Seals
Post 89
Turbos, S2 M030
928 351 421 03 36/44

so I would say that all turbos came standard with Big brakes 36/44 Pistons, so upgrading those cars to M030 is a waste of time, as M030 are listed with the same size pistons.

928's also list 36/44 pistons, and some with 36/42
928 351 423 03

so all I can say is if you have M030 or Big Blacks they are the same size pistons, the only variable is the pad size.

Thanks, Just to add to that though the discs also vary in thickness, the 250 turbo / M030 spec medium blacks have thicker handed discs (angled vents), whilst the na cars just have straight vents and can be swapped side to side - not sure about the 220 turbos though?
Tony

 

[dlknight]

Pretty sure the post 89 turbos (like mine) had the majority of M030 parts as standard apart from the shocks and springs. There are lists of the changes all over the interweb but the ones that come to mind are of course the brakes, front anti-roll bar (26mm), uprated clutch, toughened gearbox with external oil cooler. Maybe the difference in the caliper mountings comes down to if the car had the M030 adjustable suspension fitted?

 

[blade7]

AFAIK 89 cars had some leftover MO30 parts fitted, by 1990 the spec was pretty much standard unless otherwise ordered.

 

[edh]

Just had a quick look through the wheel at my 91 turbo front calipers. Porsche logo is raised, mounting bolts are horizontal rather than vertical on the caliper.

So radial mount? You access them (cap head bolts IIRC) from the side I think, rather than the rear. Standard S2 brake calipers bolt on from the rear (axial mount).

 

[blade7]

No. Pictures would make it clear , but I can't be arsed with the palaver on here.

 

[Waylander]

Palaver..... ha ha not heard that word for a while

 

[blade7]

Wasn't the first word that came to mind....

 

[scam75]

Great word! It would seem we are going round in circles here, a bit like brake discs!

Wheres Frenchy? Did the turbo s have M030 as standard and radial mount front calipers? My guess is yes and then for some reason 89 on 250 cars got axial mount unless specced with M030. I'm out after this attempt!!

Stuart