Where are the Cayman EVs?

[Motorhead]

Maybe I’ve missed something, but if the electric Cayman is to be released next year I would have expected to see a few “spy” photos by now? Surely the prototypes should be at an advanced pre-production stage and so you would expect there to be quite a few cars out and about validating all aspects of a brand new design, both mechanically and - more importantly - electrically?

I’m sure that a lot of the experience gained during development of the Taycan and Macan EVs will have been very useful, but the unique problems posed by an electric sports car will have presented a number of significant challenges for the design and engineering teams. I would have thought that would require an extensive on-road testing programme?

Jeff

 

[Scrounger]

I was told to expect the same delay as in the Macan EV so most probably a year. The Macan should have been released last year but production delays scuppered those plans. Same with the 718. Personally I think it’ll be a 2025 release.

 

[AndrewCS]

Electric Porsche Boxster: new pictures of near-production sports EV

Next-gen electric Porsche Boxster scooped: why the replacement 718 Boxster and Cayman sports cars will adopt battery power in 2025 for silent EV performance

www.carmagazine.co.uk

 

[AndrewCS]

Porsche 718 GT4 ePerformance 2022 review – the electric racer you'll want to watch | Evo

Porsche's new all-electric one-make racer is a looking glass into the future of the electric performance car

www.evo.co.uk

 

[Motorhead]

Thanks for your comments chaps.

I’ve seen some snaps of the electric Boxster undergoing winter testing and elsewhere Andrew, but my point was that as far as I’m aware we’ve yet to see the Cayman equivalent? Like Dan my understanding is that both cars are due for release some time next year, so I would expect to be seeing some late prototype/pre-production Caymans out on public roads by now?

Jeff

 

[Motorhead]

According to this piece in Autocar there are reports that the electric Boxster and Cayman could be delayed and the life cycle of their ICE siblings extended. If, as reported, VAG are going to close the Osnabrück plant where 718 Caymans are built, I wonder where they plan to continue assembling the ICE cars; Stuttgart presumably?

Porsche Boxster, Cayman EVs use race tech for "real sports car" handling | Autocar

Porsche electric sports cars will focus on braking feel and employ a new battery layout to enhance their handling

www.autocar.co.uk

The article is an interesting read.

Jeff

 

[ralphmusic]

According to this piece in Autocar there are reports that the electric Boxster and Cayman could be delayed and the life cycle of their ICE siblings extended. If, as reported, VAG are going to close the Osnabrück plant where 718 Caymans are built, I wonder where they plan to continue assembling the ICE cars; Stuttgart presumably?

Porsche Boxster, Cayman EVs use race tech for "real sports car" handling | Autocar

Porsche electric sports cars will focus on braking feel and employ a new battery layout to enhance their handling

www.autocar.co.uk

The article is an interesting read.

Jeff

IMHO it is lazy journalism.

Basic questions should start with how much longer the 718’s authorisation has to run for volume sale into EU markets as opposed to small volume authorisation.

Then how much would it cost and how long would it take to make the 718 platform cyber and nanny compliant. Or even how can a NA drive train be implemented in a platform designed solely for EV, even before one considers engineering costs.

Euro 7 has been delayed until 2027 and in the interim, Euro 6e concentrates on monitoring real world compliance, adding brake and other emissions to the regulations.

It would be really interesting to hear a journalist investigate and set out these issues which are really complex.

VW group will close Osnerbruck mid-2025; some say 2026 but I don’t see where the economic volume comes from. In good news though, workers there are IG Metall union so are not striking like the VW union employees.

 

[Motorhead]

Lazy journalism indeed Ralph, but unfortunately it’s becoming the norm rather than the exception these days now that - apparently - people’s attention span is falling, coupled with a need for instant gratification. And what I thought particularly odd was that the article was supposed to be about Porsche’s approach to EV brake feel. Maybe the editor decided to merge two articles into one?

I think it would be impossible to adapt the upcoming EV platform to ICE power, let alone hybridising the 718, but how long Porsche could keep 718 production going is an open question given the Osnabrück closure situation and the fact that the production lines must now be in advanced state ready to assemble the EV cars. A significant amount of work would need to be carried out to meet emissions and cyber security legislative requirements to sell the cars in all markets, unless Porsche reckon that there will be sufficient demand for the cars outside the EU. Having said that, if there’s a pause in EV development then maybe additional resources could be diverted to address 718 updates? Perhaps Porsche could fix the 718 F-4T GPF issues!

Given the 24% fall in Porsche’s profitability this year I would imagine that they’ll continue with 718 production for as long as there’s demand, subject to legislative requirements.

Jeff

 

[Boomer_Zoomer]

A very interesting topic this.

I agree with Jeff, that as long as a demand for ICE 718's exists and legislative regs allow, the current production line may get a temporary reprieve. We can only live in hope.

Speaking personally, having recently taken ownership of a 2021 CGTS 4.0 PDK, it will be a very sad day indeed when cars such as this are no longer deemed a viable production option.

As a former Alpine A110 owner I was intrigued by the news that the forthcoming next generation EV A110 due in 2026 has looked at Porsche for inspiration in how to build an EV sports car brand. Also interesting is the news that this new A110 will be lighter than a comparable car with a combustion engine, referring to undercut the Porsche 718 Boxster at 1400kgs.

So, Porsche will no doubt be aiming to compete vigorously with the upstart Alpine A110 in the EV propulsion, dynamics, and body mass stakes. What will be more difficult is maintaining the Porsche brand character in the absence of combustion engine acoustics. A portfolio of synthetic sound tracks added to EV propulsion will never replace the real thing for we enthusiasts.

Brian.

 

[ralphmusic]

From German forum:

“Now you have to wait and see what happens next at Northvolt, Varta also single source at T-HEV, Porsche was able to take over V4Drive GmbH with 51% for a relatively slim 30 million in the almost bankruptcy, before the technology goes to Asians.

VW has invested 500 million in Northvolt, which, however, only came to 119 million in sales in 2023, with around 4000 employees around 2023, i.e. about 30,000 euros in sales per capita per year, in total, Northvolt has accumulated a mountain of debt of 5.8 billion US$ since its foundation, so catastrophically. The value of Northvolt was built on future fantasy, and it has burst at the moment.

Porsche wants to hold on to Northvolt order due to lack of current alternative for 718 E, whether VW with now 20% or Porsche is interested in the majority of the shares should be seen soon.”

..and..

“Oh, that doesn't look good with the 718 E, Northvolt battery planned, and they are insolvent.

According to Handelsblatt, there are still problems with other components. Model launch may be delayed.

The Northvolt battery with higher energy density planned. But there is probably another problem of another component. Things are not going smoothly at Porsche at the moment.

Also interesting is the result of the audit at Northvolt of the BMW engineers: "There is nothing left to save" ...”

 

[Motorhead]

It sounds as though there could be further delays to the electric cars’ launch Ralph, if indeed Northolt are to be the battery supplier.

Oddly enough it seems that for the Taycan, LG Energy Solution delivers cell packs from Korea to Germany, where the supplier Dräxlmaier assembles them to a full battery pack and delivers them to Porsche, and the Macan is powered by a battery pack supplied by the Chinese company CATL … although it’s possible that Dräxlmaier may also be involved?

I assume Porsche chose Northolt because they were “promising” a higher power-density battery, giving packaging advantages in a sports car configuration?

Jeff

 

[ralphmusic]

It sounds as though there could be further delays to the electric cars’ launch Ralph, if indeed Northolt are to be the battery supplier.

Oddly enough it seems that for the Taycan, LG Energy Solution delivers cell packs from Korea to Germany, where the supplier Dräxlmaier assembles them to a full battery pack and delivers them to Porsche, and the Macan is powered by a battery pack supplied by the Chinese company CATL … although it’s possible that Dräxlmaier may also be involved?

I assume Porsche chose Northolt because they were “promising” a higher power-density battery, giving packaging advantages in a sports car configuration?

Jeff

Exactly this Jeff - "I assume Porsche chose Northolt because they were “promising” a higher power-density battery, giving packaging advantages in a sports car configuration?"

All single source supply chains...

 

[Motorhead]

What a mess! It sounds as though Porsche backed the wrong horse, and if they can’t resolve the battery supply issue rapidly it can only mean further delays to the launch of the electric cars. I’ll bet that there’s a lot of head scratching going on in various Porsche departments right now!

Having said that, at least there’s a chance that the 718 will soldier-on for a while yet, subject to the restrictions we’ve discussed before. I don’t know how important are the mid-engine cars to Porsche’s revenue stream, but if the launch is delayed until 2026 it’s going to impact profitability if production of the ICE cars is halted.

Jeff