DMS and Cargraphic reviews needed
- Thread starter bobfair
- Start date
I am desperate too!! All the parts of my CG powerkit came in yesterday but:
a) Parr have said one of their 997TT customers has just complained about a tripped immobilizer warning a week after the ECU remap. This is the first time Parr have ever seen this so they are now researching whether it is to do with the remap or not. This investigation apparently will take about a week, after which if given the green light I will go ahead with my powerkit.
b) I planned on having just the exhaust and air-filter done whilst I wait but I couldn't get away from work to go have it fitted. I may have more free time next week.
Frankly I find it unlikely that the CG remap would affect anything to do with the immobilizer, so I am not concerned - just impatient!!
What with the GT-R showing the Turbo up in the CAR review this week, I don't want to turn up at a track day without a big edge in the power dept. Rumor has it that the GT-R is actually pushing out about 520bhp , so my new 544bhp and 800Nm should put that embarrassment to rest!
I am planning on also having Parrs 'fast road' suspension tweak they do. If I want more then they have Progressive Springs option too. I will stick with the Powerkit and the geometry change for now, and then later perhaps add an IPD plenum, an upgraded clutch, and the Springs (perhaps some Bilstein Coilovers which are very highly rated by Turbo owners who have had them fitted).
a) Parr have said one of their 997TT customers has just complained about a tripped immobilizer warning a week after the ECU remap. This is the first time Parr have ever seen this so they are now researching whether it is to do with the remap or not. This investigation apparently will take about a week, after which if given the green light I will go ahead with my powerkit.
b) I planned on having just the exhaust and air-filter done whilst I wait but I couldn't get away from work to go have it fitted. I may have more free time next week.
Frankly I find it unlikely that the CG remap would affect anything to do with the immobilizer, so I am not concerned - just impatient!!
What with the GT-R showing the Turbo up in the CAR review this week, I don't want to turn up at a track day without a big edge in the power dept. Rumor has it that the GT-R is actually pushing out about 520bhp , so my new 544bhp and 800Nm should put that embarrassment to rest!
I am planning on also having Parrs 'fast road' suspension tweak they do. If I want more then they have Progressive Springs option too. I will stick with the Powerkit and the geometry change for now, and then later perhaps add an IPD plenum, an upgraded clutch, and the Springs (perhaps some Bilstein Coilovers which are very highly rated by Turbo owners who have had them fitted).
garyw
Moderator
Alex, why did you not buy a GT3 or GT2 if it was the power you were after ??
After spending that amount of money on additons that will have ruined your warranty it was surely the better route ?
I say that, but I was looking at the Caragraphic system the other night... just can I be bothered to spend 2.5K for the car to sound louder- for other people..... not sure.. [&:]
garyw
After spending that amount of money on additons that will have ruined your warranty it was surely the better route ?
I say that, but I was looking at the Caragraphic system the other night... just can I be bothered to spend 2.5K for the car to sound louder- for other people..... not sure.. [&:]
garyw
Let me see. I wanted 4wd as I don't spend enough time on tracks doing power-slides to warrant 2wd. I didn't want a huge rear wing. I ideally wanted back seats. I didn't want to spend £130k on a GT2 which is £30k more for +50bhp and +0Nm - which seems a lot when compared to under £5k for a powerkit which offers +70bhp and +120Nm.
Warranty - 2 years followed by £1000 a year thereafter - a ridiculous rip-off that I learnt about the hard way with my 997C2S Cab.
If my engine blows up then I can only blame myself. However, the Turbo does have a bullet proof rep given it's a GT1 professional grade engine that is very commonly modified throughout the world. Plus I have a MY08 car which was introduced 2 years ago now, meaning Porsche should have ironed out most of the bugs now.
Cargraphic (in partnership with RS-Tuning) is one of THE best Porsche tuners in the world. Ruf are the only other company I know of with an equal rep in Germany - but even they don't race Porsches professionally like RS-Tuning does. So these guys really know what they are doing.
So. Risky yes, but I don't plan on thrashing the car so I think the risk is minimal and the gains for a relative small amount of money massive. Frankly the thought that Porsche is purposely restricting my car's power because of marketting targets makes me seriously mad. I tune Enterprise IT systems for a living, so it's in my nature to get the best performance out of things.
Yes, I also plan to keep the original exhaust and air-filter.
As for the mapping, it's just that, no replacement parts. Parr archive your original mapping and can put it back to standard in about 10 mins if you want.
Parr also do Porsche servicing, so no need to pay ridiculous OPC labor rates if any work needs doing.
As for the mapping, it's just that, no replacement parts. Parr archive your original mapping and can put it back to standard in about 10 mins if you want.
Parr also do Porsche servicing, so no need to pay ridiculous OPC labor rates if any work needs doing.
Gary - the CG Kit 1 is just an exhaust and air-filter but gives great power gains (and faster Turbo spool)
http://www.cargraphic.co.uk/index.php?/s,6,7,18,2987,2988,3103/
Although if I was more interested in sound and price over power, I would actually go with a Tubi exhaust and a BMC air filter (Tubi is about £2500 fittted, whereas the CG exhaust is about £3300).
http://www.cargraphic.co.uk/index.php?/s,6,7,18,2987,2988,3103/
Although if I was more interested in sound and price over power, I would actually go with a Tubi exhaust and a BMC air filter (Tubi is about £2500 fittted, whereas the CG exhaust is about £3300).
Some more Tuners reviewed in this months Sports Auto German publication:
http://www.cargraphic.de/stepone/data/downloads/8a/0d/00/SportAuto0308_1.pdf
http://www.cargraphic.de/stepone/data/downloads/8a/0d/00/SportAuto0308_1.pdf
The CG car seemed a lot lighter than the others. Looks like the mods for the CG car were (my German is not good):
* Increase in output incl. exhaust
* Bilstein Coilovers incl. stabilizers
* Wheel set
* Something to do with the sport brake lining
So I guess they saved weight on the wheels and 5kg on the exhaust. And given the pic, also on Porsche lightweight racing seats. The brakes are red though so probably not ceramic.
* Increase in output incl. exhaust
* Bilstein Coilovers incl. stabilizers
* Wheel set
* Something to do with the sport brake lining
So I guess they saved weight on the wheels and 5kg on the exhaust. And given the pic, also on Porsche lightweight racing seats. The brakes are red though so probably not ceramic.
Thanks Alex. I am really looking forward to hearing your views once conversion work done. Keen to know about sound, exhaust resonance, extra performance and what the geometry changes do to the feel of the car. Quite a few guys have gone for the H & W springs which lower the car by 20mm. Which of the three sound levels have you gone for?
I am also considering changing my pads. The PCCBs are great but on hard charging track days the pads get eaten. Pagid make the pads for Porsche and they are designed for road use. I am thinking about going with Pagid RS29s but they are very noisey apparently.
Come on Nick what about DMS?
I am also considering changing my pads. The PCCBs are great but on hard charging track days the pads get eaten. Pagid make the pads for Porsche and they are designed for road use. I am thinking about going with Pagid RS29s but they are very noisey apparently.
Come on Nick what about DMS?
Hey Bob
I don't think I will lower my car. The CG suspension offerings allow for the same ride height as stock and I have heard great feedback from guys who have installed the Bilstein coilovers.
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=390993
I am going for the middle loudness CG exhaust, although I am tempted by the (non-TUV) extra loud version.
What I want to know from Nick is what his car looks like now with the 20" brushed silver HRE wheels like I have on mine. If he doesn't answer on here soon I will drop him a mail to see how he's getting on.
I don't think I will lower my car. The CG suspension offerings allow for the same ride height as stock and I have heard great feedback from guys who have installed the Bilstein coilovers.
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=390993
I am going for the middle loudness CG exhaust, although I am tempted by the (non-TUV) extra loud version.
What I want to know from Nick is what his car looks like now with the 20" brushed silver HRE wheels like I have on mine. If he doesn't answer on here soon I will drop him a mail to see how he's getting on.
In the list of fitted CG options on the RSC AutoSport test car I spotted the intake manifolds were upgraded too - that would have added a few more horses. From what CG have told me the Manifold Headers yield at least +10bhp and +10Nm.
The RSC car (not confirmed by CG yet - waiting on this) had the following options fitted:
* CarGraphic / Rs-Tuning ECU map (544bhp kit2) and exhaust including manifolds
* Bilstein Pss9 suspension with front carbon strut brace
* Front Aero Lip PU
* Carbon Rear Wing
* Short Shift Kit
* CarGraphic Racing 19" wheels,
* Pagid brake pads and steel braided hoses
I think I am going to just stick with the Powerkit 2 and Parr's own 'Fast-Road' geometry set-up for now.
Later, I may add some Bilstein Coilovers (£3700 fitted), Lowering Springs (£1400 fitted), Manifold Headers (£1250 fitted), Clutch and flywheel (£2000 fitted), and an IPD Plenum (£1000 fitted). But frankly I will be well into GT2 money by then (given I optioned out my car to start with) so I might leave it for a bit. It's not like I absolutely *need* any of these extras
The RSC car (not confirmed by CG yet - waiting on this) had the following options fitted:
* CarGraphic / Rs-Tuning ECU map (544bhp kit2) and exhaust including manifolds
* Bilstein Pss9 suspension with front carbon strut brace
* Front Aero Lip PU
* Carbon Rear Wing
* Short Shift Kit
* CarGraphic Racing 19" wheels,
* Pagid brake pads and steel braided hoses
I think I am going to just stick with the Powerkit 2 and Parr's own 'Fast-Road' geometry set-up for now.
Later, I may add some Bilstein Coilovers (£3700 fitted), Lowering Springs (£1400 fitted), Manifold Headers (£1250 fitted), Clutch and flywheel (£2000 fitted), and an IPD Plenum (£1000 fitted). But frankly I will be well into GT2 money by then (given I optioned out my car to start with) so I might leave it for a bit. It's not like I absolutely *need* any of these extras
Parr led me to believe that what they were selling me was the Cargraphic Powerkit 2, and I just found out (by contracting CG in Germany) that what they are actually selling me is a hybrid of the CG Exhaust and Parr's own in-house ECU remap. The proper CG kit is a huge amount ££££ ontop of what I was quoted.
How there could have been any confusion is totally beyond my understanding as I have been emailing them daily with questions on the CG re-map.
If I do get my money back I think I will get a Tubi, a BMC air-filter and an IPD Plenum instead. ie. no ECU remap.
How there could have been any confusion is totally beyond my understanding as I have been emailing them daily with questions on the CG re-map.
If I do get my money back I think I will get a Tubi, a BMC air-filter and an IPD Plenum instead. ie. no ECU remap.
OK - Parr have graciously offered to refund me my full deposit should I wish it.
They are also going to see if they can possibly knock down the standard CG Powerkit price after going away and having talks with CG themselves.
I will know later today what they can come up with. If it's a good enough deal I will stick with it, otherwise I will go the Tubi/Plenum route.
They are also going to see if they can possibly knock down the standard CG Powerkit price after going away and having talks with CG themselves.
I will know later today what they can come up with. If it's a good enough deal I will stick with it, otherwise I will go the Tubi/Plenum route.
chrismouzou
New member
spoke to a guy last week he has tubi exhaust fitted on his car-said to noisy with tubi
chris
chris
Just for comparisons, the price of the Ruf 550bhp package is 10,650 EUR (before vat or fitting) and the price of the CG 544bhp package is 8,495 EUR. With the Ruf kit you also get an upgraded clutch and exhaust tips.
The issue I have now paying full price for the CG kit is that the GBP<>EUR exchange rate is very poor right now, whereas the GBP<>USD rate is very good. That means Tubi and IPD parts are much better value than CG/Ruf parts.
The big discount I *was* getting on the CG powerkit reduced this exchange rate difference to the point where I could compare prices equally. This is no longer the case. Now price is a big factor on choosing a direction to go, especially as Parr have now suggested I upgrade my clutch too (obviously their offering is not 800Nm torque).
The issue I have now paying full price for the CG kit is that the GBP<>EUR exchange rate is very poor right now, whereas the GBP<>USD rate is very good. That means Tubi and IPD parts are much better value than CG/Ruf parts.
The big discount I *was* getting on the CG powerkit reduced this exchange rate difference to the point where I could compare prices equally. This is no longer the case. Now price is a big factor on choosing a direction to go, especially as Parr have now suggested I upgrade my clutch too (obviously their offering is not 800Nm torque).
Just plotted out the engine dyno comparison of the Ruf 550 (10650 EUR) vs the CG 544 (8495 EUR) kits:
If you add up all the PS and Nm across the whole RPM range you get:
Ruf 550: 4200 PS and 7270 Nm
CG 544: 4291 PS and 7370 Nm
So I guess the CG kit would be faster. Really hard to pass on the CG kit.
If you add up all the PS and Nm across the whole RPM range you get:
Ruf 550: 4200 PS and 7270 Nm
CG 544: 4291 PS and 7370 Nm
So I guess the CG kit would be faster. Really hard to pass on the CG kit.
Hi all
New on here but been a member for sometime as my mother and father have had Porsches for a long time. I used to have a M3 CSL but now a 997 C2 S but will tell you about that later . With ref to this post my Father has a black 997 turbo with short shift box , full tubi exhaust and its been DMS tuned he may be of some help if you need advice.
New on here but been a member for sometime as my mother and father have had Porsches for a long time. I used to have a M3 CSL but now a 997 C2 S but will tell you about that later . With ref to this post my Father has a black 997 turbo with short shift box , full tubi exhaust and its been DMS tuned he may be of some help if you need advice.
I think I might know why the 544bhp Cargraphic/RS-Tuning car does so well....
I was just told be Cargraphic that their numbers are with Sports Chrono OFF!
Meaning:
- Stock Turbo with Sport OFF = 1.0 bar and 620 Nm
- Stock Turbo with Sport ON = 1.2 bar and 680 Nm
- Cargraphic Turbo with Sport OFF = 1.15 bar and 800 Nm
- Cargraphic Turbo with Sport ON = 1.35 bar and 840-860 Nm
Just got my car back after fitting the Cargraphic 544bhp powerkit.
Couldn't give it a proper test drive as was pouring down with rain and lots and lots of traffic. Will do a bigger report later after spending more time behind the wheel.
First impressions though:
Videos/sound-clips/more reports to come later.
Couldn't give it a proper test drive as was pouring down with rain and lots and lots of traffic. Will do a bigger report later after spending more time behind the wheel.
First impressions though:
- Exhaust sound is great!! (not PSE hacked-open on a Carrera great, but still a vast improvement) Wouldn't want it any louder (I got the middle loudness version) and to me at least it sounds a lot like the Tubi from in the cockpit.
- Turbo lag is almost gone; the car now feels like it has a NA engine given how responsive it is
- Turbo kicks in a lot smoother as a result of the kit - you are soon doing frightening speeds in the blink of an eye. It even sounds smoother. When I put my foot down at low revs in the original car you would have a pause then it would feel like the engine was balling up all the power to then unleash. Now when I hit the throttle you just get an instant smooth surge of power. I much prefer this.
- I have only pushed my right foot to the floor 3 times thus far and only very briefly - and the results are startling! The upper revs of the gears just sounds SO 'angry' and it accelerates like the cars life depends on getting away. It honestly feels like I now have unlimited power at my disposal. The concept of needing sport mode with over-boost is now frankly ridiculous.
Videos/sound-clips/more reports to come later.
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