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AIR COOLED MEMORIES

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geedee
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2021/03/25 13:41:50 (permalink)

AIR COOLED MEMORIES

While passing time wondering the www as is my habit I came upon the 911 SC  section of the air cooled forum and was pleased to find it at least recently active with Tom`s thread on the acqusition of his 79 SC providing him with so much pleasure and subsequent answers to his questions of aspects of  originality being answered by numerous helpful folk. All of which reminded me of my years of air cooled ownership beginning with a well rotted 60`s 912,later moving on to a 77SC and finally ending up owning an 82 SC, thus I spent a fair bit of time in and around my SC`s over 10 years or so, I learned enough to be able to help a couple of Porsche club pals with issues they had with their SC`s and spend a bit of time hands on with the then RO`s 928, a slightly more complex beast..
In the 911sc79 thread I noted Peter Bull seemed to suggest that the non-sport SC as being "desirable," which caused me to wonder in reference to which other 911SC, as it seemed to me that the Sport was likely to have been thought of as the more desirable of the two with it`s Fuch wheels and spoilers as being de-rigueur at the time..?   Both my SC`s were non sport equipped with the smaller 15" Cookie Cutter and thus shod with higher profile tyres to equate to the same rolling radius as the 16" Fuchs with lower aspect ratio tyres, which could make for less of a problem when switching between Fuchs and Cookie Cutters as there would be no change in gearing or speedo accuracy suffered..?
Given the opportunity to drive a Sport equipped SC it seemed obvious that the ride was unsurprisingly less ..err...comfortable given it`s stiffer Bilstine dampers than the Boge ones on the non-sport SC, and the lower profile tyres while making the steering more responsive also conveyed more..err contact with the type of road surface one was travelling over, thus on  today`s pot hole strewn roads I suspect Peter may be correct relative to the non sport`s desirability..?
My 77 SC was an old car perhaps 13 years old when I bought it and while it seemed to run well compared to my 912, the engine sounded a tad thrashy, which I later found out was due to broken outer valve springs, wOn replacing the broken spring , I suspected the cause to have been over revving by a previous owner, as I also found the rev limiter built into the distributor rotor arm to be seized... Might be worth checking yours, if you forget to make religious use of the rev counter while pushing on...?
When I upgraded to my 82 SC it was a non-runner, having a non releasing clutch and unsurprisingly to me, it too had broken outer valve springs and a seized rotor arm rev limiter... As part of the engine works I fitted new timing chains ramps and the later 3.2 oil fed chain tensioner system. I also fitted stainless silencers, along with replacement tinware and powder coating it, the cooling fan and cowling, which was a tad bling and not something I would repeat today, as it seems the older I get the more I seem to value originality..Hmm..?
I greatly enjoyed my SC`s both being quite the best built sports cars I have owned to date, and I have had a few..(-:  If there might be any interest in pics of my SC`s which I took years back... just SHOUT and I will try to post a few.
My newest 911 driving experience was at the UK launch of the 993 at Cameron house on the shores of Loch Lomond in November 93 where the now defunked magazine Car Week editors were looking for a 10 year old Porsche to create an article in which to compare with the then new 993 ... Tony the PCGB RO in my area at the time and was contacted and suggested my old SC could perhaps fit the bill, Car Week editors were happy it seemed, but not as happy as was I to attend the launch and drive the 993 over my favourite stretch of road in the Trossachs...I was also informed that I was the first private individual to drive the 993 by the then MD of Porsche cars GB..!!!    It was also great to see my old SC appearing in the magazine alongside the then brand new 993.  I also wrote a few paragraphs and took a few pics which appeared in Porsche Post.
As some of you may know Cameron house suffered a fire a few years back and apparently it has been refurbished and considerably modernised and due to open this April... I have read in the 993 register section of Porsche post that there was Covid halted round the UK baton relay planned and had been in progress, I thought it would have been great to plan a possible Cameron House change over lunch or whatever...? Perhaps if the pox continues to restrict the baton`s progress perhaps November 2023 could be a significant anniversary..?
Finally I note that there seems to be no 993 register entries in this months Porsche post...?

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fxm911
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Re: AIR COOLED MEMORIES 2021/03/25 14:23:13 (permalink)
Thanks for your post 👍
 
We (myself and a group of great guys here to help) have recently taken over the register and trying to get some activity going back into it and it is posts like yours or Tom's that we rely on.
We need to hear from members, their stories, their cars, their technical questions... This is what this section of the forum is all about so we can share our passion or experiences of these cars.
So thanks again for taking the time to write this post and please upload some pics, we can't get enough of shots of SCs 😉
 
Interesting to hear about your feedback on the sport and non sport ride. I recently changed the rear Bilstein on mine for some adjustable GAZ ones and the ride is so much more compliant (and I can always wind them up a little if I ever decide to get the car on track again one day). 
Would be good to hear from other owners who have had the chance to try sport and non sport or who have changed their dampers to get their views as well.
 
With regards to the 993 register in PP this month, guess maybe Mark got a little tied up with other matters that were requiring is attention but I am sure this is only a one off....

Franck MARIE
911 SC Register Secretary
geedee
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Re: AIR COOLED MEMORIES 2021/03/25 15:39:40 (permalink)
Many thanks for taking the time to respond to my post. Hats off to you for trying to keep this forum alive, though I suspect you may be up against it with the other slightly more "open" Porsche forums available on the www, and on which I have posted, my thinking being to share experiences in the hope someone somewhere might benefit from them, and perhaps some of the many pics I have taken over the years, as opposed to keeping them in a shoe box to be thrown out as rubbish at some future time..shrug.
I would have liked to post my ramble at the beginning of the air cooled section as opposed to within the SC section as it had some 993 relevance, however that seemed not to be an option, seems contributions are divided on a more partizan basis.. (-:
I suspect Porsche owners may well visit all the Porsche forums from time to time be they PCGB members or not thus nothing much seems to be kept "in-house" as it once was, thus with the potential to create all sorts of friction.
I am more than happy to share my pics, some of which I have posted in the R1 section of the forum.
This is my favourite pic of my first 911, the 77 SC taken after I re-sprayed it, having thrown it off at the bottom of Duffus dip on Knockhill and bashing the rear wing... Duh..!
I have many more pics if there is any interest.

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MoC2S
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Re: AIR COOLED MEMORIES 2021/03/25 16:45:44 (permalink)
geedee
My newest 911 driving experience was at the UK launch of the 993 at Cameron house on the shores of Loch Lomond in November 93 where the now defunked magazine Car Week editors were looking for a 10 year old Porsche to create an article in which to compare with the then new 993 ... Tony the PCGB RO in my area at the time and was contacted and suggested my old SC could perhaps fit the bill, Car Week editors were happy it seemed, but not as happy as was I to attend the launch and drive the 993 over my favourite stretch of road in the Trossachs...I was also informed that I was the first private individual to drive the 993 by the then MD of Porsche cars GB..!!!    It was also great to see my old SC appearing in the magazine alongside the then brand new 993.  I also wrote a few paragraphs and took a few pics which appeared in Porsche Post.
As some of you may know Cameron house suffered a fire a few years back and apparently it has been refurbished and considerably modernised and due to open this April... I have read in the 993 register section of Porsche post that there was Covid halted round the UK baton relay planned and had been in progress, I thought it would have been great to plan a possible Cameron House change over lunch or whatever...? Perhaps if the pox continues to restrict the baton`s progress perhaps November 2023 could be a significant anniversary..?
Finally I note that there seems to be no 993 register entries in this months Porsche post...?


Hi GeeDee
 
Now I'm intrigued .. if you have archived a copy of the article, I'll make sure it gets in the next issue .. any pics of the Cameron House do ?
 
The Baton Relay is salvaged from the binbags of face masks, kicking off pretty soon, i'm getting ready to take charge about 2nd or 3rd week of April after it journeys up from the deep south. I think you can follow progress on the post in Members Only here :
https://www.porscheclubgb.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1068983&mpage=4 is the active page of 4 at present ! I'm sure Loch Lomond area will be included as I know someone near Glasgow itching to get his hands on it .. yes you know who you are ! 
 
As I posted elsewhere Mark has recently chaired the EGM while actively serving as Chairman, IT Director leading the EGM team to glory, and in his spare time running the 993 Register for the moment .. something's got to give, noone to my knowledge has successfully held down this many roles !
 
cheers, Maurice

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geedee
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Re: AIR COOLED MEMORIES 2021/03/25 18:09:16 (permalink)
Thanks for your interest Maurice. I have indeed created JPEGS of both the article I wrote for PP, and the article which appeared in Car Week  in November 93,( I bought a few copies of the mag which I still have)  I also have pics I took at Cameron House which I can post if you like. I suspect the Car Week article and associated pics may have copyright issues relative to posting, however Mark has copies of the aforementioned as JPEGS, that I sent him last year.
MoC2S
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Re: AIR COOLED MEMORIES 2021/03/25 18:26:04 (permalink)
Well, send anything / everything to me too, I'm sort of helping out.

© Maurice Piper 2021 All Rights Reserved & No Licence Granted
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alastairp
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Re: AIR COOLED MEMORIES 2021/03/25 19:21:30 (permalink)
Are you still in R1 geedee?

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geedee
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Re: AIR COOLED MEMORIES 2021/03/25 20:37:37 (permalink)
Affirmative alastairp mem no 563
geedee
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Re: AIR COOLED MEMORIES 2021/03/25 21:23:08 (permalink)
Will have a go at posting some more SC pics, the black SC being my first it had paint runs when I bought it and when I bashed it and repaired the wing and the usual corrosion areas which together justified a total respray, though IB`s are a real pain to re-spray given all the fiddly rubber bits to strip off and rebuild complicating things somewhat..
 

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geedee
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Re: AIR COOLED MEMORIES 2021/03/25 21:29:08 (permalink)
Both my Black and later Red SC saw track time and were used in all weathers though not ever as daily transport, it ever felt special to get in either and turn the key.
 

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fxm911
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Re: AIR COOLED MEMORIES 2021/03/26 06:44:59 (permalink)
I think we have got the perfect shot for the next SC Register Christmas card here !!!! 👌
 

Franck MARIE
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geedee
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Re: AIR COOLED MEMORIES 2021/03/26 07:33:13 (permalink)
Glad you liked the "Snow way to treat a Porsche" pic Franck, it was taken quite some time back with a film camera..
Another pic from the shoe box, is of a Trio of SC Porsches sorry about the quality, but I thought perhaps worth posting, the black one being mine, the gold one being my pal Cameron`s, he asked me to look it over and accompany him to Snetterton where he intended to take part in a Porsche club race..!   Cameron had a roll cage fitted but other than that it was a standard 911. When I ran a spanner round it, first stop as ever, I checked the distributor rev limiter was free, and in the process found the advance/retard operation to be seized, no doubt due to lengthy periods of time laid up as tends to be the life of the average air cooled, perhaps more so these days..?  At least it is a simple enough task to free off the dizzy problems in an SC, none of the complexities of the later 12 plug 964 or 993`s. 
It was an interesting trip down and back up from Snetterton from R1 for the race, which Cameron enjoyed just being part of it al,l as did I, Cancer took Cameron many years back..sigh!
The Green SC Sport was Ronnie`s,  Ronnie being perhaps the most loyal Porsche enthusiast of us all, having owned many variations of the marque.From a dull memory someone ran into the back of Ronnie`s SC at one time but the damage was light enough that the engine lid was perhaps repaired as opposed to being replaced, and as I typed previously I bashed the rear wing on my black one at Knockhill when I suffered a bit of brain fade and it suffered the usual corrosion issues of a then circa 13 year OLD 911, So you see these cars are likely to all have some sort of..err.. history..?

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alastairp
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Re: AIR COOLED MEMORIES 2021/03/26 09:54:02 (permalink)
I too have an '82 SC, purchased by eBay auction in 2012 - what could possibly go wrong!

post edited by alastairp - 2021/03/26 09:56:51

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geedee
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Re: AIR COOLED MEMORIES 2021/03/26 12:35:38 (permalink)
Interesting project you have there Alistair, not in favour of the Turbo tail though but would be nice to have your SC in my garage...(-: The original engine lid grill, badge and wiper are amongst just about all I have left of my SC days, along with a steering rack, all of which I have kept, just in case...(-:
You are asking what could go wrong to the wrong man.. if you want cosy chat, given I have spent some time turning back the clock on rot in the distant past on my own and friends 911 SCs. As for the market or investment value, I have few words of comfort there.   My pal bought a GR black interior 964, just under 100k miles in very tidy condition for £16k circa 2009, a year or so ago I saw a similar 964 advertised at the same dealer for circa £40k.
I am no economist but to me neither average incomes, or UK GDP has risen by anything like the same percentage as the asking price of air cooled Porsches, but average UK personal debt has...?   It seems there is potential for burned fingers in time for those who bought them as investments, perhaps more so as the baby boomers loose their grip on the perch..unfortunately I am one such, baby boomer that is, NOT investor. Those who bought in to air cooled as a machine they seek to enjoy, be that in driving pleasure alone or a challenging restoration project... Power to their elbow, they have potential reap worthwhile returns in enjoyment of their Porsche, been there done that more than once. (-:
My own and market evaluation of air cooled differ considerably, given I was repairing rot on 70`s 911 SCs THIRTY years ago, quite how they have ..err..aged since then I leave to your imagination, though will try to attach a pic taken while checking out a pals Targa SC taken way back then... I have a few more if you can take the truth and potential pain...?

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alastairp
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Re: AIR COOLED MEMORIES 2021/03/26 13:32:25 (permalink)
Oh yes, been there - project no more! (well almost)
post edited by alastairp - 2021/03/26 13:34:03

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geedee
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Re: AIR COOLED MEMORIES 2021/03/26 13:46:05 (permalink)
BIG thumbs up from me Alistair...(-:
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Re: AIR COOLED MEMORIES 2021/03/26 21:08:28 (permalink)
geedee
Glad you liked the "Snow way to treat a Porsche" pic Franck, it was taken quite some time back with a film camera..
Another pic from the shoe box, is of a Trio of SC Porsches sorry about the quality, but I thought perhaps worth posting, the black one being mine, the gold one being my pal Cameron`s, he asked me to look it over and accompany him to Snetterton where he intended to take part in a Porsche club race..!   Cameron had a roll cage fitted but other than that it was a standard 911. When I ran a spanner round it, first stop as ever, I checked the distributor rev limiter was free, and in the process found the advance/retard operation to be seized, no doubt due to lengthy periods of time laid up as tends to be the life of the average air cooled, perhaps more so these days..?  At least it is a simple enough task to free off the dizzy problems in an SC, none of the complexities of the later 12 plug 964 or 993`s. 
It was an interesting trip down and back up from Snetterton from R1 for the race, which Cameron enjoyed just being part of it al,l as did I, Cancer took Cameron many years back..sigh!
The Green SC Sport was Ronnie`s,  Ronnie being perhaps the most loyal Porsche enthusiast of us all, having owned many variations of the marque.From a dull memory someone ran into the back of Ronnie`s SC at one time but the damage was light enough that the engine lid was perhaps repaired as opposed to being replaced, and as I typed previously I bashed the rear wing on my black one at Knockhill when I suffered a bit of brain fade and it suffered the usual corrosion issues of a then circa 13 year OLD 911, So you see these cars are likely to all have some sort of..err.. history..?



This looks like the beginnings of a bidding war between Franck and me (I for the pedants) .. .. do you have the copyright ( © ) issues covered ? If not I know of someone with expertise in this area who might help you for a moderate consideration ! ...
 
And not even at director level ..
 
cheers, Maurice
 

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geedee
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Re: AIR COOLED MEMORIES 2021/03/27 09:36:42 (permalink)
Maurice, I have no intention to get into the mire of politicking or copyright issues and for what..? The photographs I post are my own. My intent is exactly as I suggested at the start of this thread, just to share past experiences in the hope it might be of interest to some... I seek no personal advantage.
Back to SC chat...Both my SCs being a non-Sport, or "Comfort" option if you prefer, the seats were devoid of the larger side bolsters as in the Sport and thus a tad flatter in profile, the Sport providing more support during periods of "sporting driving" though with the passage of time the leading edge of the bolsters would show wear as no doubt contact with clothing during access and egress would be unavoidable, thus long term the Comfort seats had potential retain their smart appearance longer..?  The seats in my black SC were black with a pin stipe centre section to reduce the black hole look of the interior somewhat.
As part of my running repairs I replaced the complete clutch assembly including the spigot bearing in the flywheel. Having replaced the clutch I was surprised to feel a considerable reduction on the pressure required on the pedal to release the clutch when changing gear which was thought to be an advantage. I had no real issues with the K-Jetronic system that I can remember, as it ever fired up readily and ran well. In time I bought the Bosch publication AUTOMOTIVE ELECTRIC/ELECTRONIC SYSTEMS which provided detailed insight to the operation of their systems including K-Jetronic components operation and testing. the book is listed as ISBN 1 85226 021 1 cost me £16. 95 back then. 1st edition May 1998. Well worth having for any SC or 3.2 Carrera owner.. I believe that finding spares for K-Jetronic may be difficult these days..?  K- jetronic was used on a wide variety of cars, the last one I messed with was on a pals Ford Capri 2.8 injection.  I have bought a couple of publications on aspects of repair and overhaul of air cooled Porsches over the years, happy to list and discuss them if there is any interest..? I have more pics of my black SC if there is any interest.
The replacement of my 77 SC with a newer and lower mileage 82 SC  was not something I set out to do, but happened more by chance, a pal bought my nicely running 77 providing me with the funds to upgrade to a non driving newer and lower mileage GR SC, all be it for me, with a somewhat less than desirable interior colour scheme. The pal who bought my 77, wanted a Turbo tail fitted to it and later fitted white centred Fuchs to replace the Cookie Cutters.
Alistair, my GR SC presented a tad cleaner than yours when I bought it for £10k as a non-driver, though the engine ran OK ish.  While the paintwork was not covered in dust (-:  it had micro-blister issues on the OS front wing, door and rear wing as if someone had vandalised it at one time, and another vandal painted over it and no doubt charged for the privilege..! I brought it home on the back of a trailer in February of that year. and as luck would have it it started snowing heavily, which made towing a Porsche loaded trailer..err..interesting, more so in that there is a tight turn then a lengthy and somewhat steep uphill climb toward my home... I hoped to get a run at it but luck was not on my side... gave it my best shot, but lost traction a couple of hundred yards up, in fact had to run a rope to a lamp post to stop the whole shebang from sliding back downhill..!!!
Fortunately I had loaded the SC on to the trailer tail first, so selected second gear and rolled off the trailer firing it up as I went and I was OFF... fortunately there was a pub car park at the base of the hill in which I slid the tail round and exited pointing up hill and gave it the beans all the way up hill headlights on full beam and fingers crossed I might make it to the top... made it, phew, the start of a much enjoyed ownership experience.. (-:
Hoping to get the opportunity to see your SC at some time Alistair, that is if we are ever allowed out to play ever again..The last Porsche events I attended were two of the Knockhill events last year and where I grabbed a few pics... only saw one air cooled on track, and another, a very tidy GR 930 Turbo parked outside the circuit office with a for sale sign on it..
If this is too much chat for the forum, just SHOUT and I shall cease and desist. 

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fxm911
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Re: AIR COOLED MEMORIES 2021/03/27 09:47:36 (permalink)
geedee
Maurice, I have no intention to get into the mire of politicking or copyright issues and for what..? The photographs I post are my own. 


Yes, let's try not to pollute this really nice thread thank you 😉
Geedee, if OK with you I would like your pictures to be uploaded in our register gallery as well.
 
geedee
If this is too much chat for the forum, just SHOUT and I shall cease and desist. 

 
No please don't stop !!! This is great stuff and I wish more members shared their SC ownership and experiences with us on the forum. 
post edited by fxm911 - 2021/03/27 10:09:54

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Re: AIR COOLED MEMORIES 2021/03/27 10:10:14 (permalink)
Enjoying the chat Geedee (although I suspect that is not the name your mother gave you).
If you are still in the Scotland South area, it would be good to meet up and talk SC nonsense.
I have loads more pics of my ownership journey since 2012 with the car eventually going back on the road (and track) in 2015.
It has been laid-up since then due to a protracted house build from mid 2015 until now.
Regards
Alastair

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