Starter Motor

[medazzling]

hi, pretty sure my starter motor has jammed so when I turn the key I just get the heavy click. To add to my issue there is not much spare room in the garage its stuck in.
I've tried rocking it in gear without joy, any other ideas to get me started?
Option 2 is to try and change the unit? I'm a basic home mechanic, not an expert but do regular servicing and brakes for example, so anyone tried this change and could give a view on whether this is something to try in my position? I can get into the engine bay ok but not under the sides or to jack the car if needed.
Thanks in advance

 

[Car52]

I’m no expert but mine was doing same a week ago, thought it was starter motor and did the rocking in gear thing to no avail ... turned out to be battery after all, put new battery on and instantly sorted ...

 

[chas3.2]

Hi Darren

Not an easy job as you need to jack the car up put on axle stands

lower the gearbox, too remove the two holding allan key nuts.

one of them is very awkward.

Tow start the car with your best mate. get car on a lift still not an easy job.

Charles.

 

[medazzling]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Pretty sure the battery is OK, been on conditioner over the winter, so I guess its going to be the tow job as its a tricky job with the starter. Cheers

 

[geedee]

Just web wandering and wondered if you resolved your starter issue..? Along with battery issues earth leads can often be an issue, the one at the battery or the one running from the strap providing earth from the chassis to the engine gearbox assembly. it can be due to the lead it`s self rotting internally which can be as the result of it`s location under the car for the engine gearbox earth strap. Check the battery terminals for any corrosion or signs of heat indicating they ay not be clean and tight, it can be good practice to remove the bolts securing the earths to the bodywork and cleaning the faces where they make contact.

With poor connections anywhere in the circuit it can lead to a drop in voltage at the starter which may supply only enough to operate the solenoid and no more.

Happy to chat further if you think I might be of assistance.

Never owned a 3.2 but repaired the starter of my SC in the Auchranie hotel car park a few years back at a PCGB event on the Island of Arran.. (-:

 

[pebattrick]

I've just gone through two periods of pain with my '84. After a major body job and rebuilding the car, I h ad much trouble with the car to the extent that I replaced the whole starter relay unit, turns out at the end of the day, the battery hada cell gone down. The relay that engages the motor pinion is very sensitive to battery voltage, > 7.8 volts. In desperation I took the battery to my friendly garage and they pronounced that it had a dead cell (this despite keeping it topped up whilst the car was in pieces). New battery and everything was good - until last week when the starter jammed. Starter off and it performed well , back on the car and all is good so far. A freak jamming event? Who knows.

The starter itself is an easy job to remove, You do need to get the rear of the car up as high as possible and then remove the drivers side heat tube. The trickiest bit is getting a 10mm hex into the top bolt. I have found through practice (see above) that fingers can get around the body of the motor and guide the hex tool into the bolt head. A 6" extension gives enough clearance to get a ratchet spanner onto the end. An hour should get it off easily. Good luck, what else are you going to do on a sunny day?

 

[les richards]

I've just gone through two periods of pain with my '84. After a major body job and rebuilding the car, I h ad much trouble with the car to the extent that I replaced the whole starter relay unit, turns out at the end of the day, the battery hada cell gone down. The relay that engages the motor pinion is very sensitive to battery voltage, > 7.8 volts. In desperation I took the battery to my friendly garage and they pronounced that it had a dead cell (this despite keeping it topped up whilst the car was in pieces). New battery and everything was good - until last week when the starter jammed. Starter off and it performed well , back on the car and all is good so far. A freak jamming event? Who knows.

The starter itself is an easy job to remove, You do need to get the rear of the car up as high as possible and then remove the drivers side heat tube. The trickiest bit is getting a 10mm hex into the top bolt. I have found through practice (see above) that fingers can get around the body of the motor and guide the hex tool into the bolt head. A 6" extension gives enough clearance to get a ratchet spanner onto the end. An hour should get it off easily. Good luck, what else are you going to do on a sunny day?

Probably a wee bit late now - only just seen your post - but I've been going through the same pain with my 993. A click from the rear of the car and little else apart from the occasional time when it fired and ran. My starter is still under warranty as was the battery; I got a replacement battery (having tried a borrowed starter pack with instant success) from ECP but it made no difference.

Spoke by chance to a one-man garage set-up near me. Old school chap who said it sounded like an earth problem, something, he said, affected VW and Porsche a lot in his experience (he also runs a Boxster). I cleaned the earth point near the battery along with the strap tags and later tried it and it started. The car was due a service and MOT at which point changing the starter was an option. Thought I might have to trailer it but it started and got me there...

Having carried some simple checks of the system, it seems the car never once clicked while with the mechanic and he reckoned he must have started it a dozen times or so during the day and taking it for the MOT.

So, still not quite sure what the cause was or whether the cleaning of the earth connections cured it but, touch wood, all is well. A good earth is vital on all vehicles so worth keeping a check on it as it's easy to overlook the simple things.

Oh, and I've still a year to run on the starter warranty and as yet ECP haven't collected the 'old but probably sound battery'...

 

[geedee]

The earth strap and the cleanliness of both ends of it`s termination are critical to the operation of the starter, it can be well worth while to unbolt them and clean up not only the strap but that which it bolts on to, be that the engine/gearbox or chassis. In a bid to avoid corrosion on the metal you may have bared, a smear of grease over the area once bolted back up can help.

It seems on water cooled Porsches, that there have been issues over time with the heavy leads failing in service that supply the "live" juice to the starter, so perhaps worth being aware of that too if you come across the issue on a later "911."

Types he who once replaced a starter motor to find the negative battery terminal hiding crud between it and the tight clamp.. Duh..!

 

[medazzling]

Hi

Sorry i am embarrassed that i did not reply to close the thread

Tow bumped the car to get it running and over to the garage (Porsche Torque) and it turned out to be the starter motor . . . the guys were very good at PT and after giving me options I decided to have the unit rebuilt by a specialist and I had the car back starting perfect in a few days; fair price charged to include service work due at same time.

Thanks again for the help and guidance as always

Darren

 

[pebattrick]

Definitely have the battery checked. The whole unit needs a min of 7.8 volts to work. At low voltages the relay may click but still not have enough oomph to engage the starter motor. I've been struggling with multiple problems with mine since last autumn. Spent a long time struggling with the starter motor (bonus: I can now get the motor off and on in an hour or so.) The battery proved to have a dud cell. Still not over the hump as starting is still intermittent. About to change the ignition switch.

 

[les richards]

I've just gone through two periods of pain with my '84. After a major body job and rebuilding the car, I h ad much trouble with the car to the extent that I replaced the whole starter relay unit, turns out at the end of the day, the battery hada cell gone down. The relay that engages the motor pinion is very sensitive to battery voltage, > 7.8 volts. In desperation I took the battery to my friendly garage and they pronounced that it had a dead cell (this despite keeping it topped up whilst the car was in pieces). New battery and everything was good - until last week when the starter jammed. Starter off and it performed well , back on the car and all is good so far. A freak jamming event? Who knows.

The starter itself is an easy job to remove, You do need to get the rear of the car up as high as possible and then remove the drivers side heat tube. The trickiest bit is getting a 10mm hex into the top bolt. I have found through practice (see above) that fingers can get around the body of the motor and guide the hex tool into the bolt head. A 6" extension gives enough clearance to get a ratchet spanner onto the end. An hour should get it off easily. Good luck, what else are you going to do on a sunny day?

Probably a wee bit late now - only just seen your post - but I've been going through the same pain with my 993. A click from the rear of the car and little else apart from the occasional time when it fired and ran. My starter is still under warranty as was the battery; I got a replacement battery (having tried a borrowed starter pack with instant success) from ECP but it made no difference.

Spoke by chance to a one-man garage set-up near me. Old school chap who said it sounded like an earth problem, something, he said, affected VW and Porsche a lot in his experience (he also runs a Boxster). I cleaned the earth point near the battery along with the strap tags and later tried it and it started. The car was due a service and MOT at which point changing the starter was an option. Thought I might have to trailer it but it started and got me there...

Having carried some simple checks of the system, it seems the car never once clicked while with the mechanic and he reckoned he must have started it a dozen times or so during the day and taking it for the MOT.

So, still not quite sure what the cause was or whether the cleaning of the earth connections cured it but, touch wood, all is well. A good earth is vital on all vehicles so worth keeping a check on it as it's easy to overlook the simple things.

Oh, and I've still a year to run on the starter warranty and as yet ECP haven't collected the 'old but probably sound battery'...

...can report that since I cleaned the earth to battery cable connections I (and the Indie) have experienced no further issues with starting - the last time when left for four weeks. Has started on the button each time. That's probably put the curse on it.

 

[geedee]

I have enjoyed a few "starting" issues over the years and with a modicum of electrical knowledge I have got it wrong on occasion, as mentioned in my initial response above. One failure was on my SC in the car park of a hotel on the island of Arran... where removal of the starter motor and quick clean up resolved the issue. using the Porsche supplied jack, the removed rear wheel placed under the SC and a milk crate to ensure a minimum degree of safety...!!!

I suspect best not to think anything less than 12 volts might be a good starting point... No pun intended...(-: For sure a solenoid on it`s own and in good condition may pull in against it`s internal spring at a lesser voltage than 12v, but in reality a battery measuring less than 12v off LOAD, may drop voltage as soon as the ign is switched on, and further still as you turn the key to the start position, thus increasing the LOAD on the battery along EVERY connection on it`s way to feed the starter motor ... ?

There are rather a lot of connections in the starter circuit of an air cooled Porsche, even discounting anti theft devices, any one of which can create a no go situation, if loose or cruddy.

If you get as far as a chatter from the starter motor as the solenoid clicks in and out, that is indicative of a drop in voltage at the starter. i.e. enough voltage for the solenoid to pull in, which on doing so switches the starter MOTOR into circuit, and which in turn increases the load on the circuit exponentially, to the extent that any dirty or loose connection will induce VOLTAGE DROP at the starter in the form of producing heat at the location of the crud... and even if the wiring and all it`s connections are perfect... A battery which measured 12 volts may drop it`s voltage on initiation of the start command, to the extent that it does not have enough POWER to perform a start.

I could go on but will stop there, unless anyone cares to take the discussion further.

p.s. I claim ZERO expertise.

 

[pebattrick]

Re starter motor and ignition switch: In a similar position, trying to chase down an intermittent starter problem. The symptom is that the relay clicks but doesn't engage with the starter ring. I have replaced the ignition switch, rewired the starter circuit to use the ignition switch to drive a relay which then connects the battery to the starter relay, replace the battery and checked all the battery connections, except the earth from gearbox to chassis cross member. One of the nuts (the gearbox one) is very inaccessible as it is concealed behind the gearbox cross member, even fitted a new starter motor. Still scratching my head.

Can anyone recommend a motor rebuilder in Bristol area. Also what is the consensus about replacing with a hi torque equivalent and which one to use?