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Helpful ReplyHot!Over Winter; start or not to start your engine?

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TimG
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TimG PCGB Member
2020/10/25 09:38:26 (permalink)

Over Winter; start or not to start your engine?

I'm looking to hibernate my 718 GT4 over the winter and have the Ctek charger, tyre cushions and cover all ready to go. 
 
I'm not a mechanic so excuse the following question if it has an "obvious" answer...
 
Should I simply leave the car in its torpid state over the winter or alternatively start the engine every couple of weeks to prevent the oil draining and settling in the sump? 
 
 

North Oxfordshire - R31 area
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Motorhead
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Re: Over Winter; start or not to start your engine? 2020/10/25 10:24:02 (permalink)
Tim,
 
I’m sure that many will suggest that the best way to preserve the car - and not just the engine - is to keep it running throughout the winter months!

However, if you’re intent on laying it up over winter then it probably would be useful to run the engine on a regular basis. Just getting it up to normal running temperature should be sufficient, although I doubt that the CATs will reach full running temperature and I don’t know what effect limited running will have on the particulate filters.
 
Unfortunately you’re not exercising the transmission, wheel bearings, tyres, etc. Maybe you should think about rotating the wheels on a regular basis?
 
All just my tuppence worth of course.
 
Jeff

987.2 Cayman S
North Beds (R10 & R24)
TimG
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Re: Over Winter; start or not to start your engine? 2020/10/25 10:56:11 (permalink)
Motorhead
Tim,
 
I’m sure that many will suggest that the best way to preserve the car - and not just the engine - is to keep it running throughout the winter months!

However, if you’re intent on laying it up over winter then it probably would be useful to run the engine on a regular basis. Just getting it up to normal running temperature should be sufficient, although I doubt that the CATs will reach full running temperature and I don’t know what effect limited running will have on the particulate filters.
 
Unfortunately you’re not exercising the transmission, wheel bearings, tyres, etc. Maybe you should think about rotating the wheels on a regular basis?
 
All just my tuppence worth of course.
 
Jeff




 
Hi Jeff, 
 
I know, I perhaps should keep it running but for this winter at least I'm going to try to resist temptation. 😉
 
Thanks for the general advice but regarding the tyres, I have invested in some memory foam based tyre cushions so I'm hoping they will prevent the need to rotate the wheels as regularly.
 
Tim

North Oxfordshire - R31 area
ralphmusic
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Re: Over Winter; start or not to start your engine? 2020/10/25 11:05:49 (permalink)
It is also worth over inflating the tyres

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GordonT
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Re: Over Winter; start or not to start your engine? 2020/10/25 13:21:28 (permalink)
Hi Tim,
 
There always seems to be a lot of debate around this subject. Should your car still be taxed and insured, then a brief run on a warm(er), dry day is always useful, I reckon.
 
I am very interested to hear about your cushions and would very much appreciate some details (please feel free to PM me). I have some tyre savers and if someone can tell me how to drive onto them, without screwing them to the floor first, I’d be very grateful. Memories of trying to drive onto car ramps without a plank of wood across the front and some kind person (usually a girlfriend) bracing it with their foot always arise.
 
Gordon.

Cayman 981 GTS
R3 - County Durham
TimG
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Re: Over Winter; start or not to start your engine? 2020/10/25 13:34:50 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby GordonT 2020/10/25 17:58:53
Hi Gordon, 
 
I found these easy to drive onto (with a couple of goes) without using the gel sticker supplied and attached to the underneath. 
 
https://www.kuberth.com/product/car-cushions-easyrise/
 
Tim

North Oxfordshire - R31 area
tscaptain
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Re: Over Winter; start or not to start your engine? 2020/10/25 15:54:04 (permalink)
You may find this helpful from the 997 tech index
 
https://www.porscheclubgb...m.aspx?m=943256#943256

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kitchens
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Re: Over Winter; start or not to start your engine? 2020/10/25 17:22:26 (permalink)
Been told to never start engine and let it idle to heat up ...drive it to get oil up to 80/90 deg temp ,the problem with this is if your car is sorned you cannot drive on the public roads .. also told have your tank full off fuel ..others say empty who do you believe .I always have tyres  over inflated 50/60 psi and chalk mark the bottom and every 2/3 months jack it up and rotate  and spin wheels and position chalk mark on to top .always on a conditioner .think more people will take their car off road  for winter as not many/any  club meets drives on over this period . always have it insured if the unforeseen happens ,not sure laid up insurance is available from most insurers for  cars over £5k in value  used to be able to get it ..monthly  DD is good if you see a nice dry spell you can tax it for that period a few ££ extra but works well .
post edited by kitchens - 2020/10/25 17:29:55
Motorhead
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Re: Over Winter; start or not to start your engine? 2020/10/25 17:26:59 (permalink)
Some good advice there Tim.
 
Just a further comment about warming the engine. Although the coolant temperature will rise quite rapidly that’s not the case with the oil which will take a long time at idle to reach running temperature. I think you have an oil temperature gauge on your 718(?) so it would be interesting to see exactly how many miles you have to cover for the oil temperature to stabilise under typical driving conditions. Up to 10 miles perhaps?
 
Jeff 

987.2 Cayman S
North Beds (R10 & R24)
911hillclimber
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Re: Over Winter; start or not to start your engine? 2020/10/25 18:02:31 (permalink)
Two different Porsche's..
 
my 1973 911 with a stock 3.2 in it, 140k miles old will simply very soon sit in the unseated garage, batteries isolated, fuel left where it is in 2 weeks time and tyre pressures at road spec.
The car will get rolled out onto the drive a few times, but not started.
done this for 30 years! Always starts first time in late March.
 
Second car is my 987.2 which sleeps outside, owned for 4 years.
that will get run every 2 weeks due to low battery risk, and if dry, will get a run if possible, about 15 miles.
I like this as the Boxster is far far more complex with lots of sensors etc that could get awkward if left too long in the damp cold etc.
Done this for 4 winters, all ok, starts first time(churn) but only after giving the battery a good long charge.
 
hth
Graham.

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GordonT
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Re: Over Winter; start or not to start your engine? 2020/10/25 18:11:18 (permalink)
Thanks for the info, Tim.
 
I’ve seen these and wondered if they were any good. Thanks again.
 
As Jeff says, some good advice here.  You’re doing the main things anyway.  I’ve left mine longer than I would like in the past, but always with the Ctek doing it’s bit, and never had any problems. Just a bit nervous about starting after a long break and lack of oil in the right places.
 
Best of luck (beautiful car, by the way!)
 
Gordon.

Cayman 981 GTS
R3 - County Durham
Cayman295
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Re: Over Winter; start or not to start your engine? 2020/11/13 00:03:44 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby TimG 2020/11/13 12:30:38
All
 
Bit late I know but I store 2 Porsches a 996 911 C2 and a Gen 1 Cayman S.
 
I have been storing my Cayman for 8 years and the 911 for 3 without issue in a normal double garage attached to my house.
 
Best thing to do is give it a run and then polish it up and store when the car is absolutely dry.  Put the car on a charger as stated cover it up and leave it alone until the spring.
 
All I do is open it up once a month to check the interior and check the charger once a week.  The main risk to the car is moisture and vermin, I have a well ventilated unheated garage where moisture could be a problem on damp misty days and mice could get in.  I watch the brake discs if these start to corrode you have a moisture concern.  I have a painted floor and this is a good moisture indicator as well. Never seen it on the paintwork or interior. Make sure you block up the exhausts as this will show if vermin have tried to enter the pipes.  On a nice day I open the garage to let fresh air in and some warmth.
 
Before start up remove cover, check oil, lights and tyres are all ok. Then start and and drive away gently until really warmed up.  Brakes will initially be poor,  gear change notchy and clutch a bit heavy, and the engine ticky.  The steering will probably wobble above about 50mph due to tyres being slightly out of round.  You will over about 5 miles feel the car coming back to you and by 10 miles back to normal.   When car feels good stop and check tyre pressures and the normal things are all as they should be.
 
Then enjoy
 
Trevor

Current 2002 MY 03 911(996) C2 Polar Silver/ Metropole Blue
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AndrewCS
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Re: Over Winter; start or not to start your engine? 2020/11/13 01:06:06 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby TimG 2020/11/13 12:30:58
FYI ... https://www.windrushcarstorage.co.uk/storage/car-storage.php ... not all possible at home but a few tips 
 
I used this company for my E39 BMW Alpina Touring V8  a while back, t`was the least valuable car in the whole place by a huge margin !!! Certainly came out better than it went in ... excellent people to deal with 
 
No tyre cushions anywhere in sight 
 
Using the previous CR and CS throughout the past four Winter`s has been a highlight of ownership, looking forward to same with the GT4 ... once the PS4S`s are on  
 
 

Aberdeenshire (R2) : Cayman GT4 981


JohnCRS
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Re: Over Winter; start or not to start your engine? 2020/11/15 22:07:17 (permalink)
From an early age I was taught never to run a car unless it is going to get up to full operating temperature.  This includes pushing the car around rather than starting it up just to get it out the garage.  Probably overkill these days, but I really cannot see the benefit of warming the engine through just to turn it off and put it back in the garage.  Just going through another unnecessary cold start cycle.  But I would be genuinely interested to see if there is an engineering reason to do so.
 
I got some wheels ‘dollies’ from SGS which I use is the garage.  They are concave so do prevent flat spots, but it also means I can move the car around in the garage to mkae better use of the space.  You can lift both wheels on each side using just the rear jacking point (nice stiff shells on these things) so it only takes a few minutes.

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Motorhead
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Re: Over Winter; start or not to start your engine? 2020/11/16 14:11:25 (permalink)
John,
 
If you’re planning to lay-up a car for 4-months or so I suppose it’s better to run the engine on occasions rather than not at all. At least it gets the fluids circulating and an oil coating on the mating surfaces.
 
Although not ideal, I don’t think that there’s a problem just idling the engine to reach operating temperature, but although the coolant will get up to temperature quite quickly the same isn’t true for the oil and perhaps more importantly the cats, leading to high emissions. Also, by not driving the car you’re not exercising the transmission, steering, wheel bearings, tyres, etc. If possible, I reckon that it’s preferable to give the car a weekly 20 or 30 mile run to keep everything moving.
 
Jeff

987.2 Cayman S
North Beds (R10 & R24)
mj2k
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Re: Over Winter; start or not to start your engine? 2020/11/19 21:50:16 (permalink)
With my Z4M, I always just tucked it up for winter on max PSI & rotated, fresh oil & a full tank.
 
Following Spring, oil was changed again & fresh brake fluids incase of moisture, first tank of fuel driven to half & topped up with fresh to balance out.
 
Seemed to work fine for me without issue, the only issue was year 1 without a CTEK & limp mode home from a pub lunch....25mph max, roof down & a queue of traffic behind, was like a TG episode. 
 
 
peteslag
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Re: Over Winter; start or not to start your engine? 2020/11/20 12:54:13 (permalink)
When I first looked into buying my 987.1 Cayman S I did a huge amount of research on causes of borescore, IMS problems, RMS problems etc etc. One of the biggest causes of borescore was allowing the car to tick over for long periods when starting from cold. The rich fuel mixture washes the bores of any lubricant and causes excessive wear. The advice is to start, then drive off immediately at low RPM. This problem is not limited to 987.1 Porsches, all engines of all manufacturers are prone to the same thing.
 
You can get some excellent advice from the web on this, google "letting your car tick over during winter". There are literally thousands of articles on the subject.
 
If you really want to run the engine, use it as an excuse to take the old girl out for a proper drive and let it get up to running temperature. Otherwise, stick it on a trickle charger and leave it be.
DWaldie
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Re: Over Winter; start or not to start your engine? 2020/11/20 13:48:28 (permalink)
Fully agree. You don't then leave your engine and exhaust full of condensate either.
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