Irritating tick when hot at or around 2k rpm.

[RoboBongoCuckooCop]

Howdy, I've one of those issue's that's proving to be a bit hard to diagnose as it doesn't do it so much when the cars stationary, and the car needs be fairly warmed through to start doing it (though once it starts, it doesn't really let up). I've taken it to the garage a few times but so far not managed to get it to do it while stationary in front of them. They've said it's maybe something that needs to get worse before it gets better, but it's been doing it for a few months now and it's really starting to grind.

There's a bit of a ticky/tappy rattle that is synchronous with engine rpm. You can get a bit of a burst of above 2k rpm, but it really tends to do it when you lift off the throttle, typically going down a hill below 2k rpm, all the way down to 1100rpm where it'll stop. To give you a sense of speed, at 1300rpm it's like maybe one tick a second, increasing in speed with revs.

With the roof down, it can be fairly loud. With the roof up, it's quieter but more distinct and isolated. With the roof up, it sounds like it comes in off the back of a little off beat whiring and harshness. It sounds like it's just behind the centre glove box fairly central with the roof up.

The one time I have managed to get it doing it while the car was stationary, I took a video. It doesn't give you a sense of the speed of the tick with rpm, but at least you can hear it doing it:

https://youtu.be/P31BF9VkFv0

 

[tscaptain]

Hi Matthew
Welcome to the forum. I've moved this to the Boxster forum where you are more likely to get a response. Might help if you say which particular model you have.

 

[RoboBongoCuckooCop]

Thanks for that, I think maybe you want it in the Boxster section rather than the Boxter/Cayman bit?

 

[AndrewCS]

What I hear ... is a non mechanical, almost alternating metallic `tick`, as if something is moving / vibrating and `catching / contacting` a rotating part ?

 

[tscaptain]

Thanks for that, I think maybe you want it in the Boxster section rather than the Boxter/Cayman bit?

Don't they share the same engine?[]

 

[Tom__P]

Hi Robo,
Welcome to the group. I had/have the same issue with mine. Sounds almost identical and happens in nearly the same place. The OPC near me diagnosed it to a lose baffle within the exhaust system but did not deem it to be warranty. They said it was a quirk and that the only way to get rid of it was to replace the exhaust at my own cost. I managed to solve the problem by never running the car below 2000rpm..... it now serves as a reminder to me that im not ragging the car hard enough!
Tom

 

[Motorhead]

Matthew,

Evaluating the source of the sound from some random YouTube clip is nigh-on impossible.!

As Tom says, something like a loose exhaust baffle certainly is a possibility since it appears to be somewhat random, but I'd be inclined to remove the top and bulkhead covers to get full access to the engine and see if you can get a clearer impression of the noise source. Getting it up on a hoist at the same time would also be useful.

Jeff

 

[RoboBongoCuckooCop]

What I hear ... is a non mechanical, almost alternating metallic `tick`, as if something is moving / vibrating and `catching / contacting` a rotating part ?

Yes, I think so, it's linked pretty precisely with engine rpm in terms of frequency when you lift off the throttle. My first thoughts where chain/belt tensioner, some moving part that's affected by temperature (as it only starts when it's hot)..

Evaluating the source of the sound from some random YouTube clip is nigh-on impossible.!

As Tom says, something like a loose exhaust baffle certainly is a possibility since it appears to be somewhat random, but I'd be inclined to remove the top and bulkhead covers to get full access to the engine and see if you can get a clearer impression of the noise source. Getting it up on a hoist at the same time would also be useful.

Once in motion, it's not so random, it's a consistent speed with rpm, it doesn't often do it at all at stationary which makes it tricky. I appreciate what you're saying though, got it booked in to be looked at this Thursday, taking the tech out for a short drive to demo it.

 

[Motorhead]

Matthew,

FYI your 981 has the Gen2 engine in which the cam-drive chains are at the front of the engine, i.e. directly behind your back, as are all the major ancillaries. I have to say that it doesn't really sound like chain tensioner thrash, but you never know, and I don't think that you've got a sticky tappet.

Hope your tech can get to the bottom of the problem on Thursday.

Jeff

 

[RoboBongoCuckooCop]

Well, it's been a while as I've been waiting for appointments and diagnostics to come through.

Unfortunately not much further forward. The dealer & Porsche Portsmouth have had a listen and sent off a recording of the noise. They say they've eliminated the accessory belt or anything on it as a source. I've got a sort of non-committal response that they think it's the oil pump from the characteristics and where it's coming from. However they caveat with saying they can make that noise to varying extents and changing it may not fix it.

Essentially, they don't want to be liable for a misdiagnosis is what I take from that. I'm going to try and get a quote for changing the oil pump and speak to them to see if I can get a greater sense of what diagnostic they've done.

If I could write it off as 'character' I would, but it's just too loud a noise to tolerate, so I'm still fishing around for ways to get a more concrete diagnosis before I spend money on it.

 

[911hillclimber]

Matthew:
imho get the car to a reputable independent (you do not say where abouts you are) and have them take a listen/look.

They see all manner of cars that I feel are more real world than the OPC and may be far more open and specific.
Let us know how you get on, always something to learn.
Graham.

 

[richardfleming]

sounds like exhaust baffle/heat shield maybe to me - metallic ping/tick is expansion/contraction heat noise and had it on mine (heat shield) but could be baffles as said by Tom__P - and that's quite easy to fix - and you could get a better exhaust at the same time ;-)
Getting it to a decent OPC/indy to run it and listen should narrow that down pretty quickly I would have thought.
Would be interesting to hear what it was in the end too.

 

[RoboBongoCuckooCop]

Getting it to a local independent is what I'm gonna try and do. I'm just north of Newbury, near two, Northway and Autocraft. Gonna give the latter a go, Northway are great but the other does Saturdays n a courtesy car so much easier to work around. I think exhaust or cats are a contender, oil/vacuum pumps, or chain related. Going to have one more crack at narrowing that down rather than just taking a punt on Porsche Portsmouth's suggestion of oil pump.

Out of curiosity though, does anyone have a pic or diagram as to where the oil pump is located on this engine? Is it driven by the chain?

 

[richardfleming]

Getting it to a local independent is what I'm gonna try and do. I'm just north of Newbury, near two, Northway and Autocraft. Gonna give the latter a go, Northway are great but the other does Saturdays n a courtesy car so much easier to work around. I think exhaust or cats are a contender, oil/vacuum pumps, or chain related. Going to have one more crack at narrowing that down rather than just taking a punt on Porsche Portsmouth's suggestion of oil pump.

Out of curiosity though, does anyone have a pic or diagram as to where the oil pump is located on this engine? Is it driven by the chain?

can't answer the oil pump location question - but see you're relatively near me (I'm off J15 M4) and another indy option is out here in devizes (steve bull) who another boxster owning friend of mine uses and rates - but a bit of a drive for you so probably plan-b if the others don't work out.
best of luck with it all and do report back - interested to hear how it turns out!

p.s. if it does turn out to be exhaust - I wouldn't just rush out and get more of the same - some better options out there (carnewal and PSE if you're looking seem to be well rated plus several others too)

 

[RoboBongoCuckooCop]

It's been a long while and I've not got much further along with the issue. The local specialist I've seen thinks it's unlikely to be oil pump and instead thinks it might be the high pressure fuel pump. However, that's caveated with a limited degree of confidence, with him saying speaking to his contact at Porsche that having changed these on other cars, it's fixed some and others the issue has returned not long after. So I've got the predicament of whether to take a punt on something that might fix it, or go to Porsche Reading with the history of what's happened to date, pay for further diagnosis and see if they can give me something more concrete. Will have some further conversations over the next few days and figure out what I'm gonna do.

I have recorded a better video, you can hear much more here how it's linked with engine rpm/deceleration:

https://youtu.be/wy6YNUi8bL4

 

[RoboBongoCuckooCop]

So, the latest is that the local specialist spoke with main Porsche and wasn't confident with the high pressure fuel pump diagnostic and that I speak to main Porsche.

So, I've been into Reading today and spoken to one of the senior technicians. He was a good guy and went into a lot of detail of what has happened previously, that this is known in the group and has been looked into by themselves and people like Hartech. What he's saying is that they have investigated this particular sound on previous occasions with the specific sound/characteristics mine has and they believe it's a chain related noise. Where this has been investigated in the past and they have changed components (or in one case a whole engine), it hasn't resulted in a change in the noise. In the case where they changed the whole engine, the new engine started with the same behaviour after about 15k miles.

So in essence, he's told me it's not worth throwing a lot of money at it as Porsche themselves have decided that it's just something this engine does and won't cause any issue.

So that's all well and good, I understand it's not something that's gonna kill the car, but it's still an irritating thing for me that detracts from the enjoyment of the car. I think I'll write to main Porsche. Not that that'll go anywhere but maybe some one there will care about the customer experience and not putting me off the brand.

One thing we did discuss, the only thing that's relatively inexpensive that I can try is a different grade of oil (well, inexpensive if I don't have main Porsche do it, their prices for an oil change where eye watering!). Seen as mine sounds good from cold, it's possible that something that doesn't get as thin at higher temperatures might help. Mine has the standard 0w-40, and the guy said I could try something at the opposite end of the spectrum. The the manual says up to 5w-50, porsche themselves said I could look at something like a 10w-60 e.g. Porsche classic motor oil (https://www.design911.co.uk/fu/prod128597/Porsche-Classic-Motoroil-10W-60-for-Porsche-911-30L/).

I'll look into giving that a try in the near future and report back. Any oil recommendations welcome!

 

[andywill]

Hi
Prior to doing an oil change, have you thought about adding one of the Wynn’s additives to see if they have any effect.
https://www.wynns.uk.com/wynns/#wynnsadditives
good luck

 

[RoboBongoCuckooCop]

Ok, another update. The noise seem to degrade and became an almost constant tick at times even on a constant throttle, so I decided to reach into my pockets and throw a bit more at it than just oil. Seen as Porsche Reading where saying they thought it to be chain related, I asked northway to change the oil to the Porsche recommended 10w-60 and put two new chain tensioners in it (which enabled them to investigate a few things at the same time). Not a cheap job, but cheaper and less invasive than replacing chains etc.

Interestingly, they remarked that the new tensioners had a revised part number and where notably stiffer sprung compared to the old ones.

It's early days but so far so good. Had some sunshine this weekend so done a number of long spirited drives to get some heat into it and so far so good, almost no sign of the noise. It's only on coast down fairly steep gradients do I get the odd burst, but 99% fixed. Whether it'll last remains to be seen. At least with the changes I've made I've altered some variables, so fingers crossed.

Thanks for the oil additive recommendation, a friend of mine mentioned the same. If it starts doing it again I'll try that.